Differences in SS and a non SS

DanPerryy

Well-Known Member
I tried to clean this up, updating it with all the comments made later. Please note any errors

Cobalt SS
• 171 HP Normally aspirated 2.4 Liter (model years 2005-2007),
* 205 HP 2.0 Liter Supercharged (model years to 2007)
* 260 HP 2.0 Liter Turbocharged (model years 2008,9,10)
• Larger wheels 205/50R17 to 225/40R18
* Different axles, hubs
• 5X110 Wheel bolt pattern
• Larger front disc brakes 11.6” to 12.4” rotor – Goblin rear brakes
• Some with leather seats
• Manual 5 Speed transmission with equal length rear axles
• Some with LSD (G85 code in build label in trunk under carpet)
• Brembo brakes (option?)
* 2.4 L SS has 5X110 wheel bolt pattern
* There are 2 different manual transmissions, a "M86" and "MU3/MC2", Only MU3/MC2s have stock LSD (G85), M86 cannot be refitted with MU3 LSD
* There seem to be more M86 Getrags than MU3 out there.
* M86 transmission is a Getrag F23 - made in Italy 3.84 final drive (Coblat), 4.17 or 3.95 for HHR, ProParts USA carries an aftermarket Quaife LSD QDF17B for the F23. I checked on 5/23/2016 and they had 2 in stock. There also seems to be an OBX aftermarket LSD. Not currently listed on OBX Racing Sports Website
* MU3/MC2 transmission F35 is a Saab designed and built.. 3.82/4.05 final drive, The LSD version is Quaife's technology. A LSD is identified by the build tag under the left side trunk liner - a bunch of codes - look for G85
* The transmission is NOT part of the VIN



Cobalt, Cobalt LS, LT, 2LT – Various trim levels
• 145 to 155HP
• 195/60R15, 205/55R16 to 205/50R17 wheels
• 4X100 Wheel bolt pattern
• Smaller brakes 10.7” to 11” rotor– plenty for an under 1500 pound car
• Manual 5 Speed Getrag F23 transmission with UN-EQUAL length rear axles
• Automatic 4 speed transmission/OD with EQUAL length rear axles
• Automatic transmission models engine sits about 15mm further forward than manual
* 2LT and 3LT model has 5X110 wheel bolt pattern


Here is a useful tool for determining exactly what equipment a potential donor has is this VIN Decoder:
http://chevroletforum.com/forum/vindecoder.php
 

TomsGarage

Active Member
Another thing to note, 2008+ for the SS switch from supercharged to turbocharged. The Turbocharged engine is much stronger at 260hp and is highly recommended over the supercharged one. The Cobalt SS also features a very nice Quiafe LSD Limited Slip Differential, but was not installed on all models. Easier way to tell if the car has a LSD is to look under your trunk liner, on the left side, you will see a sticker with a bunch of codes on it, the "G85" code signifies the LSD.
 

DanPerryy

Well-Known Member
A difference between a standard (manual) transmission and automatic regardless of SS or Regular Cobalt is the automatic's engine is 1-2 inches further forward.
 

Adam

Administrator
Staff member
DanPerryy said:
A difference between a standard (manual) transmission and automatic regardless of SS or Regular Cobalt is the automatic's engine is 1-2 inches further forward.
To expand on this, the reason for the difference is that the automatic transmission is bigger. If the engine would have been mounted in the car in the same spot, the axles would not have lined up with the steering knuckles. To keep the axles in line with the knuckles, GM offset the engine about an inch further forward.

The only effect this has on the Goblin is that the fuel tank will have a bevel across the upper back edge to clear the alternator and intake manifold.
 

DanPerryy

Well-Known Member
I found this web page that summarizes engine differences.
http://www.emotorcon.com/motors/Cobalt-775
 

Jkean949

Something witty
Thanks everybody! There is a lot of good information in here.

I need to check mine for the G85 code.
 

PHerder

Well-Known Member
One more thing to note... there are Cobalt SSs with "only" a 2.4l engine backed with an automatic (2005-2007 ONLY). I haven't seen a 2.4l engine with a 5 speed... yet. And the 2.4l only is a NA engine in the Cobalt SS and the Pontiac G5 GT. To see what engine is in the SS/GT AND there is a picture of the engine, the engine covers are the same between the "base" cars with the 2.2l and the 2.4l engines and if it has a automatic (seeing the auto shifter in the interior pictures), AND it is a SS/GT, then it is a 2.4l NA engine.

YMMV
 

northvibe

Active Member
PHerder said:
One more thing to note... there are Cobalt SSs with "only" a 2.4l engine backed with an automatic (2005-2007 ONLY). I haven't seen a 2.4l engine with a 5 speed... yet. And the 2.4l only is a NA engine in the Cobalt SS and the Pontiac G5 GT. To see what engine is in the SS/GT AND there is a picture of the engine, the engine covers are the same between the "base" cars with the 2.2l and the 2.4l engines and if it has a automatic (seeing the auto shifter in the interior pictures), AND it is a SS/GT, then it is a 2.4l NA engine.

YMMV
THere was a 5spd NA SS 2.4L. Not sure how common, but here it is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Cobalt_SS#SS_Naturally_aspirated

My old friend on CSS has one that he SC'd.
 

Jungle Gym

Member
Adam said:
DanPerryy said:
A difference between a standard (manual) transmission and automatic regardless of SS or Regular Cobalt is the automatic's engine is 1-2 inches further forward.
To expand on this, the reason for the difference is that the automatic transmission is bigger. If the engine would have been mounted in the car in the same spot, the axles would not have lined up with the steering knuckles. To keep the axles in line with the knuckles, GM offset the engine about an inch further forward.

The only effect this has on the Goblin is that the fuel tank will have a bevel across the upper back edge to clear the alternator and intake manifold.
An interesting note to this, Adam, is that the car was actually designed with the automatic in mind and the manual was made to fit, not the other way around. As such, the manual is about 15mm out of alignment. A popular mod the Cobalt guys do is called a rotated mount. It basically realigns the manual output so that it matches the automatic placement. You can read about it here: http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/drivetrain-79/rotated-mount-installation-m35-lsj-lnf-253153/
 

northvibe

Active Member
Speaking of a rotated mount... I pinged John Powell to see if he has heard of this project.

Curious if DF Adam has reached out to him? The brake cooling ducts, mounts and tons of other track parts from the SS or the Powell shop could be of use :)
 

Gage

Member
DanPerryy said:
Cobalt SS
• 171 to 260 HP
• Larger wheels 205/50R17 to 225/40R18
• 5X110 Wheel bolt pattern
• Larger front disc brakes 11.6” to 12.4” rotor – Goblin rear brakes
• Some with leather seats
• Manual 5 Speed transmission with equal length rear axles
• Brembo brakes


Cobalt, Cobalt LS, LT, 2LT – Various trim levels
• 145 to 155HP
• 195/60R15, 205/55R16 to 205/50R17 wheels
• 4X100 Wheel bolt pattern
• Smaller brakes 10.7” to 11” rotor– plenty for an under 1500 pound car
• Manual 5 Speed transmission with UN-EQUAL length rear axles
• Automatic 4 speed transmission/OD with EQUAL length rear axles

Here is a useful tool for determining exactly what equipment a potential donor has is this VIN Decoder:
http://chevroletforum.com/forum/vindecoder.php
What is the draw back of the UN-EQUAL length rear axles of the Non SS Cobalt manual transmission?
 

Jungle Gym

Member
The main draw back is torque steer, since the shorter axle has more torsional rigidity. I've driven a few high HP Hondas with unequal length axles and it is a very real thing that, when coupled with poorly chosen offset wheels and uneven pavement, can lead to some very hairy situations.

However, I'm not sure how that would affect a RWD car, or if it would even be felt. Certainly not in the steering wheel, and due to the light weight of the Goblin and the relative low load placed on the driveline compared to stock, I don't suspect it would ever really be an issue no matter how much power you put down. If anything, it may induce a slight yawing moment towards the side with the longer axle. Who's to say, though; every OEM RWD car has equal length axles.
 

Jungle Gym

Member
DanPerryy said:
Cobalt SS
• 171 to 260 HP
• Larger wheels 205/50R17 to 225/40R18
• 5X110 Wheel bolt pattern
• Larger front disc brakes 11.6” to 12.4” rotor – Goblin rear brakes
• Some with leather seats
• Manual 5 Speed transmission with equal length rear axles
• Brembo brakes


Cobalt, Cobalt LS, LT, 2LT – Various trim levels
• 145 to 155HP
• 195/60R15, 205/55R16 to 205/50R17 wheels
• 4X100 Wheel bolt pattern
• Smaller brakes 10.7” to 11” rotor– plenty for an under 1500 pound car
• Manual 5 Speed transmission with UN-EQUAL length rear axles
• Automatic 4 speed transmission/OD with EQUAL length rear axles

Here is a useful tool for determining exactly what equipment a potential donor has is this VIN Decoder:
http://chevroletforum.com/forum/vindecoder.php
A slight correction here... the 2LT does in fact have the 5X110 wheels, as does the 2.4L SS and the 3LT. :)
 

Adam

Administrator
Staff member
Jungle Gym said:
An interesting note to this, Adam, is that the car was actually designed with the automatic in mind and the manual was made to fit, not the other way around.
Thanks for the clarification and information.

Jungle Gym said:
I pinged John Powell to see if he has heard of this project.

Curious if DF Adam has reached out to him?
I have not reached out to John Powell.
 

northvibe

Active Member
Jungle Gym said:
The main draw back is torque steer, since the shorter axle has more torsional rigidity. I've driven a few high HP Hondas with unequal length axles and it is a very real thing that, when coupled with poorly chosen offset wheels and uneven pavement, can lead to some very hairy situations.

However, I'm not sure how that would affect a RWD car, or if it would even be felt. Certainly not in the steering wheel, and due to the light weight of the Goblin and the relative low load placed on the driveline compared to stock, I don't suspect it would ever really be an issue no matter how much power you put down. If anything, it may induce a slight yawing moment towards the side with the longer axle. Who's to say, though; every OEM RWD car has equal length axles.
another reason I really want a cobalt with the G85 lsd option in the trans.
 

rallyracer

Well-Known Member
The SS/TC and SS/SC use different knuckles, axles, hubs and brakes.

The TC knuckles were a little better design and also provided a better steering ratio.

The steering rack is the same in both cars.


Northvibe and I own these cars and can say they are fun. The TC is a little faster in a straight line, but not by a crazy amount. He has a GM Stage 1 TC, mines a GM stage 2 SC.
The TC was a lot more fun to drive through autoX though due to the nicer steering ratio!
 

northvibe

Active Member
rallyracer said:
The SS/TC and SS/SC use different knuckles, axles, hubs and brakes.

The TC knuckles were a little better design and also provided a better steering ratio.

The steering rack is the same in both cars.


Northvibe and I own these cars and can say they are fun. The TC is a little faster in a straight line, but not by a crazy amount. He has a GM Stage 1 TC, mines a GM stage 2 SC.
The TC was a lot more fun to drive through autoX though due to the nicer steering ratio!
I think the Lnf has a slightly diff trans gearing too? I could stay in second most of an autox where the lsj would be in 2 or 3rd. But that's an easy fix with new valve springs and you can rev up a little higher with a tune or gmstage 3 on the lsj.
 

Adam

Administrator
Staff member
One thing we've noticed about the TC driveline is that everything is huge. The axles are gigantic. That was required in the ~3000 pound Cobalt but in the Goblin, those axles are a bit overkill. That is one of the reasons my build is going to be from an SC Cobalt. I'll be able to get the motor to whatever I want and still have the lightweight components that work well with the Goblin.

I would be interested to know what Justin Reed runs for axles in his 540hp Turbo LSJ Saturn Ion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmGmyr3yPRA
 

northvibe

Active Member
Adam said:
One thing we've noticed about the TC driveline is that everything is huge. The axles are gigantic. That was required in the ~3000 pound Cobalt but in the Goblin, those axles are a bit overkill. That is one of the reasons my build is going to be from an SC Cobalt. I'll be able to get the motor to whatever I want and still have the lightweight components that work well with the Goblin.

I would be interested to know what Justin Reed runs for axles in his 540hp Turbo LSJ Saturn Ion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmGmyr3yPRA
Well that's a fast one ;) Many upgraded to LNF axles..... I think there are some custom shops making some though as well..
 

rallyracer

Well-Known Member
northvibe said:
Adam said:
One thing we've noticed about the TC driveline is that everything is huge. The axles are gigantic. That was required in the ~3000 pound Cobalt but in the Goblin, those axles are a bit overkill. That is one of the reasons my build is going to be from an SC Cobalt. I'll be able to get the motor to whatever I want and still have the lightweight components that work well with the Goblin.

I would be interested to know what Justin Reed runs for axles in his 540hp Turbo LSJ Saturn Ion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmGmyr3yPRA
Well that's a fast one ;) Many upgraded to LNF axles..... I think there are some custom shops making some though as well..
Yeah, that was Pratt & Miller who had made those for a few SC guys. Not worth the cost though ($$$$), Brian even said so after selling his car.


Then CED, along with Powell and the GMPP guys helped come out with this kit for the SC guys. Much more affordable.
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/Wheel-Hop-Kit-19211782-P10782.aspx
 
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