First Start - no crank condition...

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Nilbog

Well-Known Member
Trying to start goblin for first time. Power to gauge panel as expected. Turn key to start position and nothing.

- Confirmed butterfly throttle moves when throttle is pushed
- Can hear throttle body motor reset when cycling key off and to start position
- Confirmed ground connections from neg battery connection to: BCM rear ground lug, pedal box ground, floor board ground, engine block ground under intake
- Confirmed data wire continuity from brown/black-brown wires at ECM top connector wires to BCM grey connector wires (is there another critical connection required here?)

Things to note, in case they matter.
- Positive battery cable connects directly to starter. Another cable goes from same starter lug to fuse box starter post.
- Brake oil sensor plug not connected, need to extend this cable to get it to reach, when i get time

Looking for help with troubleshooting...
 
ctuinstra

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Do you the purple wire connected to the starter? Measure the voltage on this wire while trying to crank.

Also try every combination of the brake pedal posIt ion along with the clutch position. As mentioned, we had the connector on the wrong switch and the car would only crank when you DIDN'T press the brake nor pushed the clutch in, this being the most dangerous condition to start a car! Since you aren't getting any other indicator' it should be a security lock or anything.
 
ctuinstra

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
I missed you other post that it's an automatic. Can you make sure that it's in neutral? And again make sure it knows the brake is pressed.
 
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Nilbog

Well-Known Member
Ok, tried engaging brake but no change. Still no crank.

Note: when the key is turned to the "start" location all the gauge lights go out but the engine symbol. 7 segment display section blanks as well. I would assume this is normal but have never paid attention to it before.
 
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Lonny

Lonny

Administrator
Staff member
Do you have the shifter installed and do you have the shifter plugged into the wiring harness?

Is the shifter in the park or neutral position while trying to crank the engine?
 
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Nilbog

Well-Known Member
Yes, the shifter is plugged in to the harness by not yet connected to the transmission. I have only tried to start with the shifter (at the transmission) in the park position.
 
Lonny

Lonny

Administrator
Staff member
That should work as long as you have both in park.
There are some green wires that were all connected together, they are low speed day wires, there are some of them that if missing or not connected will keep the engine from turning over.
 
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Nilbog

Well-Known Member
Thanks. I think mine has a connector in place of the lug but i will check regardless. As well i will test for voltage at "Run" key position.
 
ctuinstra

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Only during cranking will you see a voltage on the purple wire. If not, then we will have to move back to the relay in the fuse box to see if it’s getting signal from the ECM.
 
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Nilbog

Well-Known Member
Ok, so i confirmed no 12v at purple wire when key turned to "start" position (used chassis ground). Does anyone know where the other end of the purple wire connects? I could confirm continuity that direction. or next steps?

Embarrassingly... i found the OBDII plug it has wrapped it self under and around the power steering. If anyone has the complete data wire routing i could confirm. But i was able to confirm both the tan and tan/black from the OBDII connector to the ECM, and from the OBDII connector to the TCM. Is there anything else in the data loop that goes outside of those bounds or can i call that one put to bed?

Also noticed today now that its not in daylight. As soon as the battery is connected the dash and automatic shifter positon indicator lights turn on and stay on. I left it connected for about 5 minutes and they stayed on they entire time. Not sure if theres an issue there.

Thanks for all the help chad/lonny!
 
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ctuinstra

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Nilbog said:
Ok, so i confirmed no 12v at purple wire when key turned to "start" position (used chassis ground). Does anyone know where the other end of the purple wire connects? I could confirm continuity that direction. or next steps?

Embarrassingly... i found the OBDII plug it has wrapped it self under and around the power steering. If anyone has the complete data wire routing i could confirm. But i was able to confirm both the tan and tan/black from the OBDII connector to the ECM, and from the OBDII connector to the TCM. Is there anything else in the data loop that goes outside of those bounds or can i call that one put to bed?

Also noticed today now that its not in daylight. As soon as the battery is connected the dash and automatic shifter positon indicator lights turn on and stay on. I left it connected for about 5 minutes and they stayed on they entire time. Not sure if theres an issue there.

Thanks for all the help chad/lonny!
Click to expand...
This may not be exact and for your vehicle, but it's a start. Look at page 15 for the low speed data lines Lonny is referring to. There should have been a large black connector block with lots of green wires going to it. That's the central connection for the Low Speed data wires. They all connect together.

Then you can refer to page 56 for the starter circuit.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/csh2wu1tcdvjagc/WIRING DIAGRAM.pdf?dl=0

You do NOT need a Dropbox account to download this file. In the upper right corner there is a option to download it directly (not to your Dropbox).
 
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Nilbog

Well-Known Member
Progress....well i returned to earlier state. I removed where i installed the headlight harness ground. When i installed the headlight ground i removed the BCM ground (thought i grounded the wrong lug) on the back of the BCM next to the white connector. Now i've reconnected the BCM ground lug again. Now no more security lamp and back to "normal" dash light. Fuel pump pumps, no crank.

So where is this headlight harness ground wire connecting to under/in the white connector? Im cornfused... :p
 
Lonny

Lonny

Administrator
Staff member
If your are still having lights that are on when you hook up the power make sure your headlight switch is off.

Do you have the 50 amp fused wire going from the battery to the BCM?

I think one of the low speed data wires goes to the small plug that plugs into the key sensor. It could cause your security lock to stay on.

Does your security lock come on and stay on our does it eventually go off.

You need to find your starter relay and pull it out. I think it is labeled RUN CRANK. Use a piece of wire to jump across the 87 and 30 terminals. It's just like when we empty the fuel tank in the video instructions. When you jump across the terminals the engine should turn over.
 
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Nilbog

Well-Known Member
See my posting above Lonny, im back to no security light.

Trying to confirm this headlight harness ground. Not understanding what connects to what.
 
ctuinstra

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
When the black wire of the headlight harness is grounded to the frame, this will provide another (different and much needed ground) to the Fusebox through the white connection block under the Fusebox. The rest of the headlight harness doesn't need to be connected to anything, only the ground lug.
 
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Nilbog

Well-Known Member
Thanks chad. When you say the "black wire", is that simply the largest pinned wire in the white connection block? I tried watching video 13 again and it quickly panned away from this description and moved on to another task. Right now that largest black wire is fed into the harness with the rest of the headlight harness wires... i was planning to just splice into the largest wire a few inches outside the connection block and run a ground to the transmission. Hope that makes sense.

Yes, im thinking i simply have a grounding issue. I am going to grind off and ensure grounding between the pedal box and chassis pedal mount arm, the transmission mount to chassis, and remove the starter to confirm clean connection to transmission. Everything is powdered black and the engine/transmission where painted black so im thinking its a grounding issue. Thanks! :)
 
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Nilbog

Well-Known Member
Thanks Lonny. When i redid the harness i did not separate any wires out from the rest of the harness as you've shown there. I just wanted to confirm where that ground lug wire connects in the white connection block. Do you have a picture of inside the connection block? or a pin number? Sorry if im being difficult. Just dont want to screw anything else up.
 
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