Future of the Goblin

Would you be interested in a formula-style Goblin

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 76.5%

  • No

    Votes: 4 23.5%
  • Total voters
    17
smithvmi

smithvmi

Active Member
so while I eagerly await the completion of my Goblin frame, I have been contemplating additional directions the Goblin could go in the future. My favorite idea is a single seat, pushrod suspension car incorporating a longitudinal drivetrain with a rear mounted radiator and inter cooler that uses aerodynamic body elements to move air through the radiator and ic on either side of the car, perhaps with an intake funnel over the drivers head like a formula car. The car could use existing front suspension on all four corners, wider body in the rear to achieve a wider stance using the same wishbones .the gauge, pedal box and steering wheel mounts and anything else that would fit from the two seat Goblin could be used to keep costs down.

Thoughts? Do front wheel drive longitudinal transmissions exist for ecotecs or would another driveline be superior?
 
Jungle Gym

Jungle Gym

Member
A transverse driveline is going to be more compact efficient, and will be lighter. The only longitudinal drivetrains that come to mind are from the Boxer and Cayenne, the 2nd Gen Acura Legend and Vigor (both would place the tranny too far aft), and a Subaru drivetrain converted to FWD. Regarding the Subaru option, Factory Five already utilizes this in their 818 kit, and they offer a windshieldless open top version.

You could utilize a Porsche G50 or Mendeola transaxle mated to, well... whatever you want, really. At that point, you're talking custom everything, so the sky's the limit in what engine you use. Factory Five uses their proprietary adapter to mate an LS engine to the G50 in their GTM kit.

A longitudinal driveline will add length to the Goblin and will require a complete rework of the rear because the existing suspension and subframe couldn't be used.

You couldn't use the existing front suspension in the rear because the geometry would be off to the point where a complete redesign would be necessary.

You'd need a custom steering rack with a central input and narrowing the frame to make it proportional for a single seater would require a complete redesign that would end up using very few existing pieces.

You basically want to make the car longer, heavier, more expensive and less useful. Its not necessarily a bad idea, but why not just get a Superlite Nemesis? It already exists, and it's everything you want, minus the drivetrain configuration.
 
smithvmi

smithvmi

Active Member
I have researched the nemesis a great deal, and may end up going that route, but I was just spitballing here. I want the single seat pushrod setup so the 818 is out. I also don't have the technical background to realize how many parts couldn't be reused so this was an educational exercise as well.
 
kalishek

kalishek

Well-Known Member
Smith: The 999 SuperSport Mk2 has what you want minus push rod suspension turn key for $110K or Radical RXC minus center seating turn key or Praga R1 in various versions turn key both approaching $200K optioned fully. OR Elan Motorsports makes NASA NP01 in kit or turn key starting at $72K. How fast can you afford to go? Another option would be to purchase a used Sports 2000 vintage sports racer for $15-20K for track day fun. 8D
 
smithvmi

smithvmi

Active Member
I'm definitely trying to keep it under $30,000, and I also want a hand in assembling the car. Plus, I don't think I'll realistically use 95% of the capabilities of a Radical or Praga and $200K, while an awesome deal for a car like that, is just too much. The NPO1 is an attractive option as it is spec and a really cool car. I think you can take delivery of the components and assemble yourself to reduce cost.

I was was also considering just building one from scratch, which is economical but probably not very practical.

Again, this is all conjecture and just something about which I like talking and theorizing.
 
kalishek

kalishek

Well-Known Member
smithvmi said:
I'm definitely trying to keep it under $30,000, and I also want a hand in assembling the car. Plus, I don't think I'll realistically use 95% of the capabilities of a Radical or Praga and $200K, while an awesome deal for a car like that, is just too much. The NPO1 is an attractive option as it is spec and a really cool car. I think you can take delivery of the components and assemble yourself to reduce cost.

I was was also considering just building one from scratch, which is economical but probably not very practical.

Again, this is all conjecture and just something about which I like talking and theorizing.
Click to expand...
Smith: Found a Facebook NP01 build site by owner of kit. I'll post it here so you can check out his build. Has good quality pictures.
rallyracer said:
kalishek, do you own the race car in your avatar? I know those were running the LNF (Turbo SS engine). I never heard much about the cars after they came out. I think it was a racing league or something. I'm sure the cars weren't cheap.

NVM, it was 999 that you mentioned. Have your driven / do you own one?
http://www.999motorsportsusa.com/tag/gm-2-0l-ecotech-lnf-engine/
Click to expand...
Rally: Yes, if you go back in 'News' section of 999...usa's site you'll see pictures of me taking delivery of first US customer 999 SS Mk1 and later testing the 999 SS Mk2 demo car at Willow Springs raceway. That is chassis #008 in avatar (my 999 SS Mk1) it is now being updated to Mk2 spec, the blue & yellow vehicle in their website. There are about 14 999 SuperSports world wide. The Mk2's are very fast, on par with Porsche GT3 Cup cars and Vipers. You can check out their videos of Craig Stanton (pro-driver) passing NARRA GT1 Vipers at Mid-Ohio race last year in demo car. Price wise, a new Mk2 will set you back $110K, about half the cost of new Porsche GT3 Cup car. The GM Ecotec LNF 2.0L crate engine is boosted to 466 hp with Borg Warner EFR turbo and Life Racing ECU, larger multi-fuel direct injectors, ZZP large fuel lobe cam, and 109 octane fuel. There is also a second ECU map which will run 91 octane unleaded fuel and 340 hp. It can run in NASA & NARRA sanctioned races and is under consideration for SCCA GT2 class. They are easy to drive fast and a hoot when you pass larger V-8 powered vehicles. I foresee the Goblin also being a track day monster with its lighter weight and similar performance with boosted engine. 8D
 
kalishek

kalishek

Well-Known Member
The Goblin and SuperSport are targeted at different markets. Think Lonnie & Adam were smart to offer Goblin as both kit and turn key builds. Unitech Racing (DBA - 999 Motorsports USA) only offer SuperSport as turn key build due to vehicle being targeted as a Spec race car. The object being that all vehicles would have same performance potential. KAL
10547667_700473476666367_1677560262510368053_n.jpg
 
smithvmi

smithvmi

Active Member
Awesome NP01 link Kali. I was a little surprised that you'd only save about 10% assembling yourself. For $8500 that kind of machine is probably worth being assembled by professional race technicians. Especially because if I ended up getting an NP01 it'd be stupid if I didn't get a NASA license and race it.

$80,000...down payment on a house, or a racecar? I vote racecar.
 
rallyracer

rallyracer

Well-Known Member
But those are not all that affordable and I wouldn't take it on the street around here.
kalishek said:
Smith: Found a Facebook NP01 build site by owner of kit. I'll post it here so you can check out his build. Has good quality pictures.

Rally: Yes, if you go back in 'News' section of 999...usa's site you'll see pictures of me taking delivery of first US customer 999 SS Mk1 and later testing the 999 SS Mk2 demo car at Willow Springs raceway. That is chassis #008 in avatar (my 999 SS Mk1) it is now being updated to Mk2 spec, the blue & yellow vehicle in their website. There are about 14 999 SuperSports world wide. The Mk2's are very fast, on par with Porsche GT3 Cup cars and Vipers. You can check out their videos of Craig Stanton (pro-driver) passing NARRA GT1 Vipers at Mid-Ohio race last year in demo car. Price wise, a new Mk2 will set you back $110K, about half the cost of new Porsche GT3 Cup car. The GM Ecotec LNF 2.0L crate engine is boosted to 466 hp with Borg Warner EFR turbo and Life Racing ECU, larger multi-fuel direct injectors, ZZP large fuel lobe cam, and 109 octane fuel. There is also a second ECU map which will run 91 octane unleaded fuel and 340 hp. It can run in NASA & NARRA sanctioned races and is under consideration for SCCA GT2 class. They are easy to drive fast and a hoot when you pass larger V-8 powered vehicles. I foresee the Goblin also being a track day monster with its lighter weight and similar performance with boosted engine. 8D
Click to expand...
So are you competing with the car or just enjoying it at track days? Is it road legal? I'd love to check it out sometime.
 
smithvmi

smithvmi

Active Member
In racecar terms a turnkey option on a prototype car for 70K is affordable. Not spec miata affordable but still.
 
kalishek

kalishek

Well-Known Member
rallyracer said:
But those are not all that affordable and I wouldn't take it on the street around here.


So are you competing with the car or just enjoying it at track days? Is it road legal? I'd love to check it out sometime.
Click to expand...
Rally: Used the 999 SS Mk1 as track day car (running against brothers & friends) at various tracks. Will get my SCCA, NASA, NARRA, COMMA competion licenses then start by running time trials, time attack, before going wheel to wheel with 999 SS Mk2. The only thing car lacks to make it street "legal" is horn & turn signal switch. No cat, so would not pass emissions test. Oklahoma does not have annual inspections. 8D
 
kalishek

kalishek

Well-Known Member
Gage said:
This entire thread makes the Goblin look soooo much better to me. LoL
Click to expand...
Gage: Agreed, can start mild and go wild as time, funds, and skill increase. Do like that Goblin is mid-engine and uses a ready available donor platform.
 
smithvmi

smithvmi

Active Member
Yeah, DF did a good job picking an economical yet unique base that can grow with driver skill. I'm glad I went with the Goblin instead of the Exocet; I'm not knocking that kit, but I like being part of something new and different.
 
DanPerryy

DanPerryy

Well-Known Member
A week before I drove 2 goblins - both 155 hp, one automatic one manual, my boss and friend came to Austin and we went to the AMG driving academy at the COTA F1 track and drove nearly all the amgs including the gts. What rides!!! I was still smiling from ear to ear when I got into the goblins. After the goblin drives I was beyond smiles, the maneuverability was beyond imagination. The vehicle weight is what makes the car so fun to drive. Not only in acceraration and braking but in carving a corner. I can't wait for mine. Doing wiring harness now!!!
 
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