Joebie's Random Questions Thread

Joebie

Member
Hey there! As I try to learn more about the Goblin I have various questions that I think of from time to time that I was hoping you all could help me with. I'll start off with a few right off the bat, then as time goes on I'll add to my questions list.

Thanks for the help!

#1 - Is there a particular reason that everybody does air to water intercoolers on the turbo goblin? I know that's what the kit ships with, but I personally dont like the added complication of running water lines, adding a water pump, and adding a water cooler. Is an air to air intercooler just not good enough mounted on the back I guess? What about an air to air intercooler with a fan on it?

#2 - Admittedly I've never driven a goblin, only ridden in one shortly. But just by looking at the goblin, it seems like the front end of the car is really light and may understeer or handle unpredictably at the limit. Has anyone ever experimented with custom rear control arms to move the wheels back some distance relative to the frame to shift the weight distribution more towards the front wheels? My guess is that just a few inches could make a big difference.

#3 - Do the guys over at Doyle's Fab allow you to tweak exactly what comes in the kit? For example, if the answer to question 1 is that an air to air intercooler works fine and i want to do the fab work for my own custom air-air intercooler, can i order a turbo goblin kit without the intercooler, heat exchanger, pump, intake plumbing for less money than if I were to get the full kit? Or is it just full kit or nothing?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions later!
 

Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
Some good questions, let me try to put my answer out there to consider.
1) Having a air-to-air intercooler on a rear engine car is somewhat harder to get clean and cool air into to be effective, especially if you live someplace warm. Several builders are using air-to-air intercoolers on their Goblins, using fans to pull air through them. Search the forum for intercooler and some of them will pop up for your review.
On the other hand, the air-to-water intercooler allows the heat exchanger to be installed in a better location for getting cooler air for better cooling efficiency. Air-to-water intercoolers have less tendency for heat soaking, as long as the heat exchanger is properly sized for the ambient temperatures the engine will be operating within.
Either intercooler will do the same job, all factors being the same. It may come down to personal choice and how much modification you are expecting or willing to do, if the DF system is not being utilized.
2) Getting more weight into the front of a Goblin is not a bad thing, considering the power to weight ratio on the car is incredibly high. But moving the front axle line more toward the center of the car for more front overhang is not really a good idea. Yes, more weight will theoretically be in front of the axle line, but the same relative weight will remain on the wheels if they only move back a few inches. The biggest problem will be the shortening of the wheelbase on the car. It is already a close coupled design and reduction in the wheelbase will add to the 'dartiness' of the cars handling.
A better solution is to add weight (accessories added to the car - stereo, etc.) - placed as far forward in the chassis will help a little bit. Adding an aerodynamic aid - wing/spoiler - to the front of the car will help add downforce to the front end when the car is driving. BTW, the heat exchanger for the SC and TC cars is mounted up front to keep that weight forward in the chassis.
There is really no good solution for the light front end of the Goblin, so suspension tuning is required to get the car to handle properly.
3) Your kit, your car, your money. Do whatever you would like. Modifications and personalization of the Goblin is what building one is all about.
Yes, you can order your car any way you would like. I ordered mine without the supplied intercooler system and will be fabing my own system, since I live in the desert near Phoenix. I will have an air-to-air precooler and an air-to-water intercooler on my car when completed.
Hope this kind of answers these questions - expect responses from others on the forum - and then you can decide what is best for your choices.
 

Joebie

Member
Thanks for the reply.

For question 2, I'm talking about custom rear control arms instead of cobalt control arms to move the rear wheels back further, not a modification of the front control arms. Two obvious problems that come to mind are the axle lengths would probably have to be altered, and also the rear shock mount moved back as well.

For question 3, was the lack of intercooler in your order reflected in the price you paid?
 

JSATX

Goblin Guru
Thanks for the reply.

For question 2, I'm talking about custom rear control arms instead of cobalt control arms to move the rear wheels back further, not a modification of the front control arms. Two obvious problems that come to mind are the axle lengths would probably have to be altered, and also the rear shock mount moved back as well.

For question 3, was the lack of intercooler in your order reflected in the price you paid?
You’d be changing the entire rear structure of the car. Axles have to line up. Engine won’t move any further back without completely redoing the engine mounts and upper horizontal frame tube. Understeering is just something you learn how to drive with really. Mine did it like crazy, and then I got used to it, learned it, and now it doesn’t.
 

Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
For question 2, changing the suspension configuration and going with custom control arms could be done. I've thought about it myself, but the axle line would remain in the same location. Trying to move the axle line rearward at the rear would be a real challenge and possibly create issues with the drive axles and transmission outputs. I'm not saying it cannot be done, but LOTS of customizing would be involved for a minor gain in weight shift. This is just my own thinking on this, and not knowing what you have in mind I could be offbase on my reply.
For question 3, yes, I got a reduction in the price of my kit order not wanting the intercooler system from DF. But I more than made up for that in other options I ordered for my kit.
 

Waterdriver

Goblin Guru
Question 2: Dont let the weight bias fool you. There are a lot of performance vehicles that have similar weight distribution as the Goblin. (Ariel Atom, Porsche 911, Ford GT, shifter karts, etc) Handling will come down to suspension setup, wheel and tire choice.
The first time I had my Goblin out autocrossing, I had a lot of understeer. (Along with a bunch of other characteristics I didn't care for)
I would mainly attribute this to the soft spring rates and dampening settings I started off with.
After making suspension changes, it's a totally different car to drive at the limit. Now it's much more neutral with inducible understeer and oversteer.
It's getting there. More seat time and test-n-tune still to come.

It's all personal preference and tunable. That's what I really enjoy with car.
 

Ross

Goblin Guru
1. The Cobalt SS SC comes with a Bosch intercooler pump and a water intercooler in the intake... so those parts are not from DF.
DF does give you water pipes to the front, a new radiator for the intercooler, radiator mounts, and an electric fan.
2. If you buy the extended frame, your meat weight (driver & passenger) will be 4" further forward. Some builders have moved their fuse box into the passenger front firewall area. The kit with a 200 lb driver is: 600 pounds on the front, 1100 on the rear. I agree with Waterdriver, just tune your suspension for the 35% front, 65% rear weight bias.
 

Joebie

Member
1. The Cobalt SS SC comes with a Bosch intercooler pump and a water intercooler in the intake... so those parts are not from DF.
DF does give you water pipes to the front, a new radiator for the intercooler, radiator mounts, and an electric fan.
2. If you buy the extended frame, your meat weight (driver & passenger) will be 4" further forward. Some builders have moved their fuse box into the passenger front firewall area. The kit with a 200 lb driver is: 600 pounds on the front, 1100 on the rear. I agree with Waterdriver, just tune your suspension for the 35% front, 65% rear weight bias.
I think it's different for the turbo models like I plan on doing if I do build a goblin.

From the Order Form on the website

"Manual SS Turbocharged +$2000
Adds manual shifter linkages... heat exchanger, heat exchanger plumbing, air to water intercooler with plumbing, charge pipes with silicone elbows... and rotors."

Good call on the extended frame comment, I didn't think about that. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately haha) I'm 140lb skinny dude. I was just thinking outside the box with my control arms question.
 

Ross

Goblin Guru
I think it's different for the turbo models like I plan on doing if I do build a goblin.

From the Order Form on the website

"Manual SS Turbocharged +$2000
Adds manual shifter linkages... heat exchanger, heat exchanger plumbing, air to water intercooler with plumbing, charge pipes with silicone elbows... and rotors."

Good call on the extended frame comment, I didn't think about that. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately haha) I'm 140lb skinny dude. I was just thinking outside the box with my control arms question.
Ah, I didn't catch that you are turbo charged. Good point.
 

Waterdriver

Goblin Guru
As for any option item deletes, I would just call Lonny or Adam. I believe they'll customize your order and digitally send you a corrected invoice.
I dont want to speak for them on this, but I recommend calling.
They worked with me and were great.
 

Joebie

Member
As for any option item deletes, I would just call Lonny or Adam. I believe they'll customize your order and digitally send you a corrected invoice.
I dont want to speak for them on this, but I recommend calling.
They worked with me and were great.
Thats pretty much what i figured, im just not ready to order yet so i didnt want to bug them if im not really serious about the build yet. Thanks!
 
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