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OptimizePrime

Goblin Guru
Would have a shop properly shim the lsd have cured your noise?
Still undetermined if it's the trans or the LSD itself but I can tell you the sound wasn't any different with it 'properly' shimmed. Some things to keep in mind, the transmissions come out of wrecked/salvaged vehicles with a lot of miles and then I took it's guts out and tortured it after on like 3x the tq it was meant for - so there's risk of grenading it after taking it to a shop or not.

It's my opinion and experience that the shops I've called in a 100 mile radius of Charlotte would be winging it in the same fashion as I did with the end result being no different except that I'd be driving with a false sense of security. One other thing you'll likely run into is that transmission shops like their bread and butter run of the mill transmission jobs, if it's outside the norm they don't want to touch it or push liability onto you anyway and are nice enough to charge you a premium to do so.
 

Orion24

Member
So are you just back on the F 35 transmission? Also I sent you a private message but what shifter is that in your pictures?
 

OptimizePrime

Goblin Guru
So are you just back on the F 35 transmission? Also I sent you a private message but what shifter is that in your pictures?
Yep, held onto the donor F35 but will be back on the F23 at some point soon (have a lot of other projects going rn). Don't let my experience dissuade you.

It's the acura shifter and diy base/rods, I'll try and dig up the post (edit: see below) but there was a group buy on it months ago - I don't think think it's something the group-buy organizers are interested in doing again as DF has a short shifter option.


New DF
 
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Orion24

Member
Thanks for all your great info and honestly your experience did the opposite it persuaded me to go to the F 23 I just really can’t justify spending $7500 on a six speed when I can spend a third of that on the F 23 and that’s all brand new parts including a brand new transmission! I might just for mock up and break and get a junkyard F 23 and a team green insert to practice with before I go ahead and install an LSD on a brand new transmission
 

OptimizePrime

Goblin Guru
Thanks for all your great info and honestly your experience did the opposite it persuaded me to go to the F 23 I just really can’t justify spending $7500 on a six speed when I can spend a third of that on the F 23 and that’s all brand new parts including a brand new transmission! I might just for mock up and break and get a junkyard F 23 and a team green insert to practice with before I go ahead and install an LSD on a brand new transmission
Good stuff! The Team Green insert is wayyyy easier - you don't even have to deal with bearing preload. See Justin's experience with the TG stuff, he's an outlier though and TG would probably work for 95% of applications.
27440

 

OptimizePrime

Goblin Guru
Still undetermined if it's the trans or the LSD itself ...
<Morgan Freeman> Turns out, it was the trans itself.

I purchased two more 4.10fd F23's and dropped the LSD in from the first blown trans and she's been doing great even under the abuse of a track day and 400whp/tq dyno day etc.

It's been almost two years on the dot since my last update. I have made a bunch of enhancements, just a poor job of keeping this updated. Life comes at ya quick!

Mentioned above, I took the gobo to the dyno in Sept '21 and put down ~400whp/tq and overheated / died as soon as I came off the rollers. I was logging the whole thing on the dyno and didn't see anything catastrophic happen so I went on a witchunt, which snowballed into me taking the engine apart and putting in all forged internals, new crank, etc. and the stock cams / harmonic balancer back in. Long story short, I think I the ZZP Stage 2 intake cam spun it's reluctor when the car overheated and I could never get it to run right again. It's tough to know 100% based on what you read on the internet and what zzp says but I put the stock cams back in during rebuild and haven't had an issue since. (more info)

What happened after the dyno kinda sucked but it did feel good to achieve my goal of 400whp on a tune that I made myself. She was definitely a bit much for street driving but cot **** this powerband was glorious - it also sounded legendary at 7K rpm.
41244


I have never fully built an engine before and had a lot of fun building this one. I went with molnar rods, wiseco pistons, arp everything. Only real issue I had on first start was getting the rings to seat. I washed my cylinders and flooded my oil with gas at least twice during the process and thought I'd never get it. I had to just send it under boost and as luck would have it, it worked!

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Buttoned all the above up, I also took out the ZZP valve springs and installed OTTP 82# springs. I'll spare the pics on this but it's a pretty fiddly ordeal.

Now that we're back on the road, next up is aero. My buddy had a skid plate from his Audi he was no longer using so I cut it up and repurposed it and amazingly it does make a material difference! I do have plans on going full send on a front wing as I transition this build towards a more function over form build.
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Decided to re-design and 3D print a hood scoop aka Naca Duct. I printed it in PETG and have put in a full track day in June weather without any deforming or issues. The way it's printed helps keep it secured but I also used double sided 3M tape to mount it to the hood. You can really feel the heat coming out at idle, it probably does it's job at speed? If I reprint this I'll bring it to a point at the top instead of rounding over.
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After trying a few different ways to build in support, I gave up on the kirkey (driver) seat, passenger still gets to suffer. Insert Corbeau
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I also changed the side panels to a digital cammo and will change the hood color at some point as I'm ready for a new look. I took her to Kershaw, SC to Carolina Motorsports Park for her first track night and all I can say is it's an incredibly fun and humbling experience. I have a long way to go on the driver mod and some dialing in to do on the suspension. I don't think i'll ever have big enough nuts to ever drive this to it's limits and will have to live vicariously through other members lol

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That's it for now! As always, she continues to be a work in progress (both the driver mod and the gobo :)).
 
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ah.b.normal

Goblin Guru
Not to put too fine a point on it, you’re seeing little difference between the F35 and the F23? I have been listening to the debate and so far the complaint seems to be gear ratios. My theory is that manufacturers have to jump through hoops to meet CAFE regs and maybe the gear ratios in the F35 allowed them to build the Charged SS’s? Weird crap like the “skip shift” 1st to 4th on the 93 and newer F-body 6 speed cars. The wife avoided the skip shift by shifting out of first at about 2K rpm. She drove a 97 Z28 6 speed every day for three years until we relocated to Belgium. I would really like to know more history on the F35 VS the F23, which I believe is a Getrag unit. I think they even used the F23 in an Alfa Romeo/Opel app.
 

OptimizePrime

Goblin Guru
Not to put too fine a point on it, you’re seeing little difference between the F35 and the F23? I have been listening to the debate and so far the complaint seems to be gear ratios. My theory is that manufacturers have to jump through hoops to meet CAFE regs and maybe the gear ratios in the F35 allowed them to build the Charged SS’s? Weird crap like the “skip shift” 1st to 4th on the 93 and newer F-body 6 speed cars. The wife avoided the skip shift by shifting out of first at about 2K rpm. She drove a 97 Z28 6 speed every day for three years until we relocated to Belgium. I would really like to know more history on the F35 VS the F23, which I believe is a Getrag unit. I think they even used the F23 in an Alfa Romeo/Opel app.
The F35 3.82 fd to F23 4.10 fd is a material one (even with my bougie wheels). You're right about the FD but also there's a rather large cost and accessibility component to it as well. The 4.10 F23's aren't as ubiquidous as other FD's but I was still able to snag two 4.10s at the same pull-a-part for ~$5-600 I think it was, each having ~100k miles, cleaned and checked. You can't find one F35 (w LSD) for less than $1K prior to shipping.

A lot of people are concerned that the F23 can't hold the power of the F35 or F40 which is simply not true. Justin Reed is over 500whp on a 3.82 fd F23, there are countless others putting down over 400whp. The issue with the F35 is the shift forks, they break at high torque low rpm situations and the F23 is made different and can take it apparently. The Goblin is so light I don't know if it's something to worry about tbh.

Another advantage that isn't really spoken about is axles, axles that'll work in the F23 are everywhere for a variety of hubs. The jackshaft portion of the F35 is becoming increasingly more difficult to get ahold of. Not impossible, but again you end up paying through the teeth for it vs just going to autozone.

I would still suggest one fully builds / registers their Goblin first before swapping to an F23.
 
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ah.b.normal

Goblin Guru
The F35 3.82 fd to F23 4.10 fd is a material one (even with my bougie wheels). You're right about the FD but also there's a rather large cost and accessibility component to it as well. The 4.10 F23's aren't as ubiquidous as other FD's but I was still able to snag two 4.10s at the same pull-a-part for ~$5-600 I think it was, each having ~100k miles, cleaned and checked. You can't find one F35 (w LSD) for less than $1K prior to shipping.

A lot of people are concerned that the F23 can't hold the power of the F35 or F40 which is simply not true. Justin Reed is over 500whp on a 3.82 fd F23, there are countless others putting down over 400whp. The issue with the F35 is the shift forks, they break at high torque low rpm situations and the F23 is made different and can take it apparently. The Goblin is so light I don't know if it's something to worry about tbh.

Another advantage that isn't really spoken about is axles, axles that'll work in the F23 are everywhere for a variety of hubs. The jackshaft portion of the F35 is becoming increasingly more difficult to get ahold of. Not impossible, but again you end up paying through the teeth for it vs just going to autozone.

I would still suggest one fully builds / registers their Goblin first before swapping to an F23.
If you read my sig you’ll see I will probably never use an F35. Not driving yet but I have 2 F23 already. I’m at loose ends because I will not be back in my shop until January at the earliest! This doesn’t stop me from wiring tasks. FMI on the F23 is the FD ratio on the outside of the unit? I’ve never looked for a tag. I know it doesn’t have a big tag on top like the F35.
 

SeanH

Member
@OptimizePrime

how are your oil temps ? I did an oil cooler a similar way and found my oil temps rarely got above 165. I ordered a oil thermostat and plan to install it this winter to maintain ~180. Just a thought
 

Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
@OptimizePrime

how are your oil temps ? I did an oil cooler a similar way and found my oil temps rarely got above 165. I ordered a oil thermostat and plan to install it this winter to maintain ~180. Just a thought
Where are you measuring the oil temp? Mine tends to sit at about 170 degrees measured through the oil pan drain plug.
 

Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
Motor oil is not like radiator fluid, where cooler is most times better. Motor oil has an optimum operating temperature range - 220F to 255F, give or take 5 degrees depending upon the manufacturer's specifications. Note: this is for street applications, track cars that operate at high RPMs for extended periods have other parameters.

Oil that is operating at too low of a temperature is too viscous to provide optimum flow through bearings, too 'thick' bearing film, and will not allow water or other crankcase volatiles to evaporate out of the oil. This is the reason the stock oil cooler is radiator fluid 'cooled', to make sure the oil is within it optimum temperature range - and to warm it up quicker from a cold start.

I recommend having an oil cooler thermostat that is in the 210-220F range if it is street driven and only sees short autocross track time. References for this recommendation can be found in multiple locations on the web from many expert sources.
 
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Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
This is why I keep asking where people are measuring the temperature at. I don’t like mine as low as they are, but I’m not running any extra oil cooler so other than running the car warmer I’m not sure what I can do to heat it up. But maybe the temperature in the very bottom of the pan doesn’t mean a lot.
 

SeanH

Member
Where are you measuring the oil temp? Mine tends to sit at about 170 degrees measured through the oil pan drain plug.
i have two -10an male to female with 1/8 npt ports. on the outlet of the cooler. so i know the temperature after its been cooled and before going into the motor. after the cooler is best so i can make adjustments by covering up the cooler some, or when to run the fan. glowshift oil temp/pressure gauge. the fitting with oil temp is raised to allow the 1" sensor probe.


the oil thermostat i have yet to install is below. will have a fan on a switch as well for track days.


Part NumberTypical Stabilization TempActivation TempFull Flow TempRecommended Application

FSM-185185ºF (85ºC)180ºF (82ºC)203ºF (95ºC)Engine Oil (Street & Strip)



@Desert Sasqwatch yes, they make rebuild kits or kits to change out spring for higher temperatures which costs $13.90. will more then likely have to change. wanted to see where it sits with this set up. it maintains around 165-170 with cooler mounted on side no thermostat yet (no direct airflow).
 
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Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
I would think you would want to know what the temperature is leaving the engine or entering the cooler more than leaving the cooler. If it’s high entering the cooler but low leaving, it’s doing its job. But I don’t know how much rise to expect between oil pan temps and max oil temp in the motor? I think the oil temp sensor on my Camaro is in the oil pan, but there are claims that this temp doesn’t relay directly to the gauge/ECM and the computer is using the oil temp sensor as one of several factors in computing reported oil temperature.
 
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