SliderR1's Track Goblin - 05 SS/SC

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Briann1177

Goblin Guru
Funny you mention that. I'm not sure if your donor is the same, but on mine the APP connector on the pedal has a short 3" or so pig tail that hooks up to your harness. If I remember right, that pig tail wasn't a simple pass through connector. I believe it actually swapped two of the wires related to the 5V references. I forget which colors. Maybe purple and tan?

It confused the hell out of me because the way it was wired with the pig tail didn't match what I was seeing in my service manual. When I cut the pig tail in half to solder it directly to my harness, I had to be super careful to make sure the wires were soldered correctly despite the colors not lining up.
 
JSATX

JSATX

Goblin Guru
Glad you got it figured out. As a side note for others I had control of my throttle while the data lines were still cut so those are not necessarily related.
 
SliderR1

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
IT'S ALIVE!

Went to the pick-a-part yesterday and grabbed a gas pedal off a wrecked Cobalt. Installed the new pedal, cleared the DTCs and she fired up almost instantly!

Now I've got a new issue to figure out. I noticed the intercooler pump was still running after I shut the car off. Not for sure if it was doing that before I tore the car apart or if it's because of how I wired in the HE fan...
 
SliderR1

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
This is how I have my HE Fan wired up to trigger off the HE pump... I don't see how this would cause the pump to run after the car is shut off, am I missing something?

HE_Fan_Wiring.JPG
 
JSATX

JSATX

Goblin Guru
How long does it run? I’m pretty sure they can be programmed to run a set time after the car has turned off. Usually only about 30 seconds
 
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Briann1177

Goblin Guru
It's possible. It looks like the cooling fan relay is triggered by the power train relay which isn't tied to the run/crank relay. Still looking, but I'm not sure what conditions have to be satisfied for the power train relay to close.
 
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Briann1177

Goblin Guru
If the fan is constantly running, I wonder if other things on the power train relay circuit are hot too.

Powertrain Relay Diagnosis
Powertrain Relay Diagnosis
Circuit Description
The powertrain relay is a normally open relay. The relay armature is held in the open position by spring tension. Battery positive voltage is supplied directly to the relay coil and the armature contact at all times. The powertrain control module (PCM) supplies the ground path to the relay coil control circuit, via an internal integrated circuit called an output driver module (ODM). When the PCM commands the relay ON, the relay coil creates an electromagnetic field. This electromagnetic field overcomes the spring tension and pulls the armature contact into the stationary contact of the relay load circuit. The closing of the relay contacts allows current to flow from the battery to the following fuses and relay:

  • PCM fuse
  • ECM fuse
  • INJECTORS IGN MOD fuse
  • EMISSION fuse
  • AFTR relay
  • AIR PUMP relay
  • AIR SOLENOID relay
  • A/C CLUTCH relay
When the ignition switch is turned to the OFF position, power is interrupted to the ODM in the PCM, and the relay electromagnetic field collapses. This allows the spring tension to separate the relay armature contact from the relay load circuit contact, which interrupts current flow to the fuses.
 
SliderR1

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
JSATX said:
How long does it run? I’m pretty sure they can be programmed to run a set time after the car has turned off. Usually only about 30 seconds
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Not for sure - longer than 30 seconds... I pulled the ground cable on the battery.

I don't remember it running with the key in 'run', only noticed it after the car was shut off.

Brian - thanks, you've given me something else to check later tonight. If those other circuits are hot, its not the AFTR relay...but could possibly be the Powertrain Relay.
 
Brian74

Brian74

Goblin Guru
The POWERTRAIN relay may not be getting power with the key off, but the PCM may still be default switching the AFTERCOOL relay trigger circuit to ground with key off. According to your schematic, you do not have your cooling fan trigger wired off the powertrain relay. You have it wired off of the ODM ground trigger circuit for the AFTERCOOL relay. The logic for that circuit is purely secondary on the PCM deciding to provide ground. Has nothing to do whether or not the POWERTRAIN relay is active. If the PCM has the AFTERCOOL relay output driver module trigger to ground once you turn the key off, your fans are going to run. My best guess is that PCM ODM AFTERCOOL relay trigger is going to ground with key off; whether its a 30 second delay or by some sensor logic. You could verify that with a multimeter.

I ended up just adding a relay below Rich’s fuse box that switched to ground (the fan relay trigger) when the key was turned on. I think I used the ABS circuit off the ABS fuse to power the relay, which only gets power with the key on. Its also makes it a protected (fused) circuit on both sides of the relay.
 
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SliderR1

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
Brian74 said:
The logic for that circuit is purely secondary on the PCM deciding to provide ground. Has nothing to do whether or not the POWERTRAIN relay is active. If the PCM has the AFTERCOOL relay output driver module trigger to ground once you turn the key off, your fans are going to run.
Click to expand...
I might be demonstrating my ignorance about relays here, but I don't understand how the AFTERCOOL relay can still be actively switched if the upstream POWERTRAIN relay (which provides power to one leg of the AFTERCOOL relay) is inactive. Can you help me understand how that works?

If I can't get this sorted, I will probably switch this to match what you have done with the ABS circuit.

I did bench test both the AFTERCOOL relay and the POWERTRAIN relay last night and they are working properly.
 
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Briann1177

Goblin Guru
That's how I see it too, Slider. Those relays are in series. I think the gist of the matter is that the power train relay doesn't appear to be tied to the run/crank relay. It looks like the top side of the AFTRCOOL relay continues to receive power from the power train relay after the car is turned off for whatever reason. Like what Justin mentioned, it should eventually turn off but who knows how long. In addition, something is holding the ground closed on the AFTRCOOL relay where you hooked up your jumper wire. It could be the coolant pump relay control. With that particular ground closed, things will continue to run when the power train relay is closed.
 
Brian74

Brian74

Goblin Guru
SliderR1 said:
I might be demonstrating my ignorance about relays here, but I don't understand how the AFTERCOOL relay can still be actively switched if the upstream POWERTRAIN relay (which provides power to one leg of the AFTERCOOL relay) is inactive. Can you help me understand how that works?

If I can't get this sorted, I will probably switch this to match what you have done with the ABS circuit.

I did bench test both the AFTERCOOL relay and the POWERTRAIN relay last night and they are working properly.
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Ok, so ONLY the pump is still running and not the fan as well? The way you have it wired it would seem they would both run if the aftercool relay is being triggered. Possible voltage back feed through the trigger circuit because there is no diode in your ground feed to the fan? Only guessing right now...Pull the fan relays and see if the pump still runs. Ill look through my diagrams and see what else I can find.
 
SliderR1

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
I'll double check that tonight, but I'm pretty sure it was just the pump and not the HE fan - which is what I thought was strange...
 
SliderR1

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
I think the aftercooler pump running after the car is shut off is fixed. The only thing I really did was remove and reinstall the relay and it seems to be fixed for now.

I really don't want to do any more extended testing until I get the rest of the car assembled, so I've been proceeding with that. Got most of the front and rear suspension is complete - left some things loose for a rough alignment once it gets on the ground.

I had the exhaust 'cerakoted' a few weeks ago - kinda wish i would have went with something in a dark gray. There is a LOT of black in the back of this car.

I've received all the other parts from DF that were holding me back, so I should have this thing driving shortly!

Working on getting the brakes installed now. I am far enough along to verify my 255/40-17 tires on the 17x9.75 +25 rims do fit on the back of the car without spacers. Rear strut is installed loosely to check fitment in this picture...


IMG_4380.JPG
 
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Briann1177

Goblin Guru
I like it. I'm the inverse of you with a bare engine and a black cerakote exhaust. Exhaust looks out of place. I think you made a good decision with the black.
 
ctuinstra

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Briann1177 said:
You mentioned that you were having some fitment issues with your rear stainless brake lines. Do they look like this?
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I had issues also and they did look like that. I just trimmed off some of the raised lip on the caliper to allow them to bolt down. The lip on the caliper is very thin now. A guy could remove it altogether actually.
 
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