SliderR1's Track Goblin - 05 SS/SC

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
Thanks Balphamore. I was able to space the wing brackets inward enough to get the taillight housings to clear in the factory position. I think it was less than 1/2" that was needed. The wing brackets are long enough that it didn't really effect anything where they mount to the wing. I did have to ditch the outer two support rods for the wing - but I don't think they are even needed with the new carbon wing.
 

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
If the fan is constantly running, I wonder if other things on the power train relay circuit are hot too.

Powertrain Relay Diagnosis
Powertrain Relay Diagnosis
Circuit Description

The powertrain relay is a normally open relay. The relay armature is held in the open position by spring tension. Battery positive voltage is supplied directly to the relay coil and the armature contact at all times. The powertrain control module (PCM) supplies the ground path to the relay coil control circuit, via an internal integrated circuit called an output driver module (ODM). When the PCM commands the relay ON, the relay coil creates an electromagnetic field. This electromagnetic field overcomes the spring tension and pulls the armature contact into the stationary contact of the relay load circuit. The closing of the relay contacts allows current to flow from the battery to the following fuses and relay:

  • PCM fuse
  • ECM fuse
  • INJECTORS IGN MOD fuse
  • EMISSION fuse
  • AFTR relay
  • AIR PUMP relay
  • AIR SOLENOID relay
  • A/C CLUTCH relay
When the ignition switch is turned to the OFF position, power is interrupted to the ODM in the PCM, and the relay electromagnetic field collapses. This allows the spring tension to separate the relay armature contact from the relay load circuit contact, which interrupts current flow to the fuses.
So this problem has resurfaced and I'm looking for some help.

Here is an updated schematic on what I have done:
snip.JPG


With the key off - the coolant pump is running - HE Fan is NOT running. Here is some additional information and things I have checked:

1. AFTR COOL Relay has been verified OK with multimeter - I've even tried other relays in its spot with same results.
2. Powertrain Relay has been verified OK with mulitmeter - I've even tried other relays in its spot with same results.
3. All grounds on car have all been verified. Coolant pump is grounded to engine block.
4. Coolant pump wiring from factory has been verified to be correct (some reports of the +/- being reversed from factory).
5. If pull the AFTR COOL relay and jump terminals 85 and 86 on the AFTR COOL relay slot on the fuse box, the HE FAN will come on.
6. If pull the AFTR COOL relay and jump terminals 30 and 87 on the AFTR COOL relay slot on the fuse box, the coolant pump will come on.
7. If I remove the jumper wire I installed to trigger the HE fan, the coolant pump will not run with key off.
8. If I remove the COOL FAN 2 relay, while the AFTR COOL relay is installed, the pump will quit running with key off. This is the one I'm having a hard time understanding.
9. I have verified that the circuits behind the POWERTRAIN relay are not hot with key off. I did this by pulling the fuses and checking current across them with a multimeter.

What am I missing? I'm about ready to dump this idea and just add a seperate relay for the HE Fan that is triggered by RUN.
 

Briann1177

Goblin Guru
Slider, I deleted my post because I think my theory is incorrect, but possibly still on the right track. I'm curious to know what voltage you get at the end of your jumper wire with the coolant pump running and what you get with it running. Or did you give up on thus route?

I have some suspicions.
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
You jumped 85 and 86?! That is the solenoid of the relay and is the load for the signal circuit. That's not a good idea at all. If the controller is ground switching the relay at the moment and you short across that, it could be shorting out the output of the controller and potentially damaging it. I just wanted to mention that before I forgot. I will be taking a hard look at your wiring diagram.

I believe you said the main problem is that the coolant pump is running even with the switch off.
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Okay, I have a couple of ideas but need to make verify a few things. Can you measure the voltage of the junction wire you added to trigger the fan (while key is off and the pump is running)?
 

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
Okay, I have a couple of ideas but need to make verify a few things. Can you measure the voltage of the junction wire you added to trigger the fan (while key is off and the pump is running)?
Well - let me think about that. The wire is located on the C5 block and is underneath the fuse panel in the box... I could probably make the wire long enough to stick out the side of the box and get a reading. I just read this and I've gotta run some errands. I'll report back later. Thanks for the tip on 85/86. and to answer your previous question; yes, the main problem is the coolant pump running with key off and out.

I haven't given up on this idea just yet...
 

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
Well - I have some weird results to report. I cut the sheathing in two places on the jumper wire and attached the leads from my multi meter then reassembled everything. At first the pump didn’t come on. I went upstairs to work on a few things and about 45 min later I returned to basement and the pump was running and I had a voltage reading of zero.
I pulled the aftercool relay and the pump stopped. I reinserted it and it hasn’t come back on yet...
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Two things come to mind.

1) We have not looked up what this goes to and if it could be affecting the circuit.

1543883833599.png


2) You might need a simple diode in your jumper so as not to feed back into the PCM. Not sure why you would need one, but it would help to somewhat isolate the two circuits.

1543884083764.png


I can provide you with a diode if you need one.
 

Briann1177

Goblin Guru
TBH Slider and don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're making this circuit way more complicated than it needs to be. You'll save your hair on the long run.

I'd just either use an existing circuit that's no longer in use or use another relay thats triggered directly from the run/crank relay. That's just me.
 

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
I have a new relay on order to make HE Fan a stand alone circuit activated by run/crank; however, I'm not positive its going to fix the problem.. After posting my results, I'm beginning to wander if my fuse box is bad.

Chad - your first idea - that little circuit is not used (or connected to anything that I can find from the schematics). Second idea - I'm willing to try this - I don't know anything about diodes other than they are like a check valve. Can you give me a part number and the proper way to install? I'm definitely willing to try it!

Thanks to all for the help!
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
The thing that is getting me is you measure 0 volts on the trigger line when the fan is running. This is expected as the relays are ground switched (in other words, turned on by providing ground rather than 12v). When the relays are not turned on, you should measure 12v in the trigger line. Something is triggering it when it shouldn’t be.

Since both relays are connected to the same trigger, they should both be running when triggered and not running when not triggered.
 

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
The thing that is getting me is you measure 0 volts on the trigger line when the fan is running. This is expected as the relays are ground switched (in other words, turned on by providing ground rather than 12v). When the relays are not turned on, you should measure 12v in the trigger line. Something is triggering it when it shouldn’t be.

Since both relays are connected to the same trigger, they should both be running when triggered and not running when not triggered.
This is what makes me think the fuse box might be bad. Or I'm not testing something correctly...
 

SliderR1

Well-Known Member
How about an overdue update?

I shelved this project for a few months to calm down over a bad interaction with the guy I hired to wrap the car. I thought all was going well until I showed to pick the car up and the guy doing the work decided to move forward with his idea. I asked for two red shelby stripes and got one silver metallic stripe on the hood... WTF?! I was stunned. Then I got the car home and really started looking at the work and it was shoddy at best. There were even places in the wrap on the hood where he had taken a sharpie to try to hide his mistakes! I had such a bad taste from the experience, I had to get away from the project for a while.

IMG_4874.jpg


IMG_4876.jpg


I'm moving on now with the arrival of warmer weather. I dropped the hood off yesterday at a different place for attempt #2 at the wrap - fingers crossed on this one. I've also been working on a LOT of the little things - tidying up all the wiring, installed a standalone relay for the HE fan (with the HE pump hot wire as a trigger, and it works!), also installed: kick plate, passenger seat, AFR gauge, load resistors for LED taillights, 6 pt. harnesses, LED High beam bar, etc.

I still have a short list of items to complete. Some of the bigger things include: installing fire wall, new springs (trying new rates) for all 4 corners, with helpers for the front and some parts from Brad to make bump steer adjustable. I also purchased an auto blip box because I'm horrible at heal/toe and I love the way it works on my C7 (I'm excited to try this one out).

In addition to these plans, we are moving from TN to Indiana (closer to home) in about a month. So chances are that the bigger things probably won't get finished for a while. I've got a lot of shop packing to do and an LS engine build that needs some attention before the move. And the new place doesn't have a shop...yet. I'll be in a hurry to build a detached garage as soon as we get there so I have a place to work!

I'm hoping to get the car in good enough shape to enjoy the mountain roads at least once before we are out of here!
 

IDRVSLO

Goblin Guru
Oh man, I would have been pissed. Looks good, but I can see how the red stripes would look much better. Who goes off and does their own thing?

Loving the light bar!

Are you using the N2MB box or something else?
 
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