T-12 Paraplegic SS

[Torchandregdoc]

Thanks for all of the info. One more question, oh wait, who am I kidding, I have about 200 questions. However, I will restrain myself and do my homework the hard way.

This is the first time I've posted on a forum and I need to learn some etiquette. Some of my questions are not donor related. How important is it to start a new thread in the correct area instead of just asking in the thread I've started? Also, old old posts.... if I'm reading one and come across a question, do you ask it right there, or do you open a new thread? Ie: what color paint is that on your goblin? in a nearly three year old post.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

I am most likely going to go the same route he did. If I ever get a title.

I did some research last night on titling in Nevada. Looks like it shouldnt be to big of a nightmare. I think the key will be finding the right cop or shop to do the vehicle inspection. Luckily I have a couple of friends in each of these categories.

 

[Ross]

Thanks for all of the info. One more question, oh wait, who am I kidding, I have about 200 questions. However, I will restrain myself and do my homework the hard way.

This is the first time I've posted on a forum and I need to learn some etiquette. Some of my questions are not donor related. How important is it to start a new thread in the correct area instead of just asking in the thread I've started? Also, old old posts.... if I'm reading one and come across a question, do you ask it right there, or do you open a new thread? Ie: what color paint is that on your goblin? in a nearly three year old post.

Hmmn... etiquette... Well I try to not stray too far from the thread title, but sometimes it happens. I open old threads that ask about specific topics, and ask questions right there - It keeps all the info about that topic in one place. You can edit your own posts, so I fix spelling mistakes or typos if I see them... if I have new information, you can add an "EDIT: new info here" to the bottom of an old post.

 

[JSATX]

I think this kit is still really new, and whereas it might not be appropriate to comment on some post from 2007 on a generic cobalt forum I don’t think timeframe is important here.

Me personally I prefer if people posted more on old topics then making new ones that just say the same thing. But it has a lot to do with how much content your post is going to create. If it’s a bunch, or if it specifically has to do with your build, put it in your build thread. If it’s a question like what color something is certainly that’s appropriate to post under an existing thread.

 

[Ross]

I'm not super opposed to a supercharger, however, as cool as they sound, I wonder if I might get tired of hearing the howling monster sitting a foot from my head.

After driving my car for a few weeks, I have learned that the supercharger whine only occurs beyond 80% throttle. Since you don't normally drive with that much throttle, it only whines when you are accelerating hard.

 

[Christopher Sanchez]

A bit late to this Thread but has anyone looked into the HHR SS? It may be more hassle than its worth but they were available with the 2.0 T/C matted to an automatic trans. IDK if the trans they run will be stronger than the NA cobalt's may also run into mounting an harness issues???

 

[Torchandregdoc]

A bit late to this Thread but has anyone looked into the HHR SS? It may be more hassle than its worth but they were available with the 2.0 T/C matted to an automatic trans. IDK if the trans they run will be stronger than the NA cobalt's may also run into mounting an harness issues???

Hmmm.. I didn't know there was an hhr ss. One of the nice things about cobalt is that there are some really good tunes already done. I wonder if that hhr trans had an LSD? More to learn now.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

I just did a quick study. There has been a bunch of tuning done in the HHR, with 300hp out of an otherwise stock motor. That's the number I'm headed toward. Now you've really opened up a can of worms.

 

[Christopher Sanchez]

Yes, the LNFs can get real close to 300 with a simple tune. I would contact DF directly and ask them which route is the best. They are super helpful and seem to be able to FAB up anything you could want. They had an Electric goblin in the shop that i got to look at during one of my visits! It just depends on which is more cost effective. You could potentially run into some real differences with the harnesses/dash and other electronics with the HHR. I read up a bit and it seems as though the HHR SS Trans was used in some cobalts. Maybe the 2.4L SS IDK. maybe find a turbo cobalt donor and swap the trans with an auto. Also it may be less headache and even cheaper to go with a nice 2.2 cobalt donor with an auto then buy a turbo kit from ZZP. Lots of hard decisions in your future.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

Yes, the LNFs can get real close to 300 with a simple tune. I would contact DF directly and ask them which route is the best. They are super helpful and seem to be able to FAB up anything you could want. They had an Electric goblin in the shop that i got to look at during one of my visits! It just depends on which is more cost effective. You could potentially run into some real differences with the harnesses/dash and other electronics with the HHR. I read up a bit and it seems as though the HHR SS Trans was used in some cobalts. Maybe the 2.4L SS IDK. maybe find a turbo cobalt donor and swap the trans with an auto. Also it may be less headache and even cheaper to go with a nice 2.2 cobalt donor with an auto then buy a turbo kit from ZZP. Lots of hard decisions in your future.

I thought I had really done homework before I bought my donor, but this HHR SS has me wondering. I bought the 06 SS/NA after talking to ZZP and finding that the 06 2.4l has forged internals. They felt like it was the strongest of the blocks. I plan on getting parts and a tune from them for a TC conversion.
The downside is that the 06's don't have the most robust PCM. That's really the draw to the HHR, that later model PCM, well... and the turboed automatic. The trans on the HHR is a 4T45E, same as the cobalt. Puting an auto trans in a manual car creates several issues, all correctable, but the TCM would make it very difficult. You'd have to run an aftermarket TCM or change out the harness and PCM. I think .

I've already ordered my kit. I think I'm going to go ahead with the build as planned. Get it running NA and then TC it. There is now a slight chance that instead of using ZZP products, I may pull the motor, trans, PCM, harness, gauge cluster and fuel tank and swap in HHR parts, less the fuel tank of course.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

Thank you everyone for the input.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

 

[Torchandregdoc]

OK, so you guys have really messed up my head with this HHR SS. I really like the tune-ability of the HHR ss pcm with Autotrans.
I like direct injection. I'm seriously considering doing an hhr build. I know there will be a bunch of hurdles. When I found the Goblin, I was planning on building my own chassis. I am painfully aware of how long it takes me to design and make decisions, so that's one of the reasons I'm going with the Goblin. That being said, by still going with the Goblin, I'm only redesigning a couple of systems. I think it's still a doable project for a guy in a wheelchair with a 16 year old son.

I know you guys are all busy, but you are such a wealth of information, I feel like I need to lean on you as much as you will let me.

Can you take a look at this list and tell me what you think.

Things that I'll need to modify.

I would use a 2008-2010 cobalt LS automatic as a donor with drive train and other necessary parts taken form an 08 HHR SS.

Motor mounts (due to the auto LNF. I believe this moves the motor 1" forward like all auto Goblins )

Steering column ( use hhr column for electrical compatability) ie power steering, turn signals, light switches, and cruise control. May need to change mounting and intermediate shaft.

Pedal box ( probably mount hhr accelerator sensor on cobalt box)

Brake light swtch may have a different plug.

Instruments ( I like Justin's panel)

Cooling fan motor plug (I hope they run on the same voltages)

Hoping headlight, taillights and things I haven't thought of all use the same plugs and voltages.

Fuse boxes will probably be shaped differently and mount differently.

My wire harness will probably be considerably different than that of the cobalt.

 

[BAR-AIR]

Good Afternoon,
Food for thought... I’m running a 2.2L with the ZZPerformance Supercharger and an automatic transmission (4T45E) same as the HHR. Realistically the supercharger has really been difficult to get it to work with the automatic transmission (it was stumbling through 1st - 3rd once it was in 4th it took off like a raped ape). Currently working on a 2.4L VVT completely forged components and a LNF turbocharger (biggest reason for the 2.4L turbocharged is there are stand alone engine wiring harnesses already on the market for sale) granted you will have to make your own body harness for all lights and accessories. The automatic is going to be the question electronics wise (engine harness readily available) mated to a stock transmission has been the issue (ALPHA FAB has been working on one for Nate’s Goblin - on the fence with Shaun over there every time we send it back he sits on it for months). LE5’s are readily available used or new and ZZPerformance (and others) have everything to bring it up to the 300 - 400hp which the 4T45E should handle without and issue. If you build up an engine/transmission with the stand-alone engine/transmission wiring harness everything else you would need can come from a stock (cheap) Cobalt.
THX,
Bruce

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Jim, you are correct that there are so many variations of how to build a Goblin and what upgrades can be used to get to the end result you want. The HHR SS with the turbo motor and the 4T45 auto trans is already a factory integrated system with a tunable ECM that is designed to work together. Granted, others in the forum have supercharged and turbocharged the NA Cobalt using available kits from various manufactures with auto trans with varying degrees of success.

On the other hand, the Goblin was designed to use the Cobalt wire harness. But all wire harnesses can be modified to accommodate the needs of the final product, just as the Cobalt harness must be modified for the Goblin. I believe the HHR harness is not very different than the Cobalt and with some research, and advice from someone with the right knowledge, could be made to work in the Goblin.

No matter what you decide to do, you will still need the Cobalt suspension parts, steering (at least some parts) and brakes, since these appear to be different on the HHR. As far as other modifications to accommodate your needs, direct contact with Adam and Lonny to discuss is recommended - they are very customer oriented.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

Realistically the supercharger has really been difficult to get it to work with the automatic transmission (it was stumbling through 1st - 3rd once it was in 4th it took off like a raped ape). Currently working on a 2.4L VVT completely forged components and a LNF turbocharger (biggest reason for the 2.4L turbocharged is there are stand alone engine wiring harnesses already on the market for sale) granted you will have to make your own body harness for all lights and accessories. The automatic is going to be the question electronics wise (engine harness readily available) mated to a stock transmission has been the issue (ALPHA FAB has been working on one for Nate’s Goblin - on the fence with Shaun over there every time we send it back he sits on it for months). LE5’s are readily available used or new and ZZPerformance (and others) have everything to bring it up to the 300 - 400hp which the 4T45E should handle without and issue. If you build up an engine/transmission with the stand-alone engine/transmission wiring harness everything else you would need can come from a stock (cheap) Cobalt.
THX,
Bruce

Bruce, thanks for the reply. Up until 8 months ago, I didn't know what an ecotec was. If it didn't have an LS3 or later, I wasn't interested, but then we got my wife an Equinox. 1.5L TC. Unbelievable what you can get out of a 1.5L. Virtually no turbo lag. The ecm reduces power at every shift. Engine and trans work incredibly well together. It drives beautifully. They have come so far with the computers and drive ability. That's why this HHR thing really has my attention.

I bought an SS /NA 2.4Lfor my goblin, knowing I would TC fairly soon after it was built. I also know that it will take a while to make it drive right. With the HHR, it's all stock. Everything should work in harmony, like the Equinox. If I'm not wrong, it should make a really nice driving car.

My concern is..... what have I missed.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

No matter what you decide to do, you will still need the Cobalt suspension parts, steering (at least some parts) and brakes, since these appear to be different on the HHR. As far as other modifications to accommodate your needs, direct contact with Adam and Lonny to discuss is recommended - they are very customer oriented.

I talked to Adam and Lonny yesterday, by the way, our cars are getting close. Adam said the pedal box is definitely different. I think steering and, will the motor sit where it's supposed to in relation to the rear axel and fuel tank spacing, are my biggest concerns. Everything else should be fairly straight forward if those two points work. The rest will just be a matter of moving clips and.....

Anyway, thanks for letting me bounce ideas off you guys.

 

[Christopher Sanchez]

First off, I’m sorry for bringing up the HHR SS haha. The motor and trans in the hhr are both used in cobalts so theoretically they should line right up. The charged piping into the tc manifold is pretty tight so that extra inch may be a factor. The real issues are going to be wiring harnesses, fuse box, bcm. You can always modify a cobalt pedal box to allow hhr pedals to mount up that should be easy. In my own personal opinion if you take everything that is required to make the engine/trans run and drive from the HHR SS donor. modify the pedal box and harness accordingly to fit the goblin it should run like a stock hhr. Which sounds like that’s what you want. The subframes look really freaking similar as do the front spindles. Brakes come new from DF in the turbo kit so you’re good there. If you buy the coil overs from DF then you’re set with suspension.. honestly I’d sell the 2.4 donor and just pick and pull any small pieces you may need along the way. Its an auto so parking brake is optional unless your state requires it for reg. The speedo cluster will mount differently and the power steering on hhr SS looks different but is the same on the base hhrs I am sure some other small things will come up but I say go for it! I’d call around and check on the front spindles and subframe to know for sure whether it will mount to the goblin. ZZP 2.4 turbo would be sick!

 

[Christopher Sanchez]

First off, I’m sorry for bringing up the HHR SS haha. The motor and trans in the hhr are both used in cobalts so theoretically they should line right up. The charged piping into the tc manifold is pretty tight so that extra inch may be a factor. The real issues are going to be wiring harnesses, fuse box, bcm. You can always modify a cobalt pedal box to allow hhr pedals to mount up that should be easy. In my own personal opinion if you take everything that is required to make the engine/trans run and drive from the HHR SS donor. modify the pedal box and harness accordingly to fit the goblin it should run like a stock hhr. Which sounds like that’s what you want. The subframes look really freaking similar as do the front spindles. Brakes come new from DF in the turbo kit so you’re good there. If you buy the coil overs from DF then you’re set with suspension.. honestly I’d sell the 2.4 donor and just pick and pull any small pieces you may need along the way. Its an auto so parking brake is optional unless your state requires it for reg. The speedo cluster will mount differently and the power steering on hhr SS looks different but is the same on the base hhrs I am sure some other small things will come up but I say go for it! I’d call around and check on the front spindles and subframe to know for sure whether it will mount to the goblin. ZZP 2.4 turbo would be sick!

I would use the auto SS hhr for my donor, not an LT cobalt.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

It looks like the differences in the cradles are suspension related, but the drawings are to crude to really tell for sure.