Tony's City Goblin - 2010 SS/TC

[Tony]

I figured I'd start the build thread now that I have the donor in my garage, even though I haven't placed my order for a kit yet. My plan is to do an extended (I'm 6'5") city frame in Illusion Purple. I haven't decided for sure on all of the details, but I'll use this thread as a place to document progress as well as discuss ideas.

The donor Cobalt was delivered to me on Jan 26. The "purchase price" was $700, but after fees and shipping, it was just under $2k to my door. The Auction site I purchased it from said it ran and drove, but of course that wasn't entirely true. It sort of started, with a jump, but wouldn't stay running. A quick peak and listen under the front end told me that the intercooler piping was broken, which seemed to make sense since it looked like it had eaten a ditch. So an hour of wresting, towing, and pushing with the Volvo got it into the garage.

As received. Broken driver window and rear windshield, front windshield shattered but intact. Spare on the left rear, flat front right.

And a busted taillight

The Crown Royal shift boot and "freshasf*ck" sticker tell me the car was definitely owned by a winner.

Totally busted cluster... hopefully I can repair it.

Of course, "tuner" spline drive lugs, with no socket in sight. Had to order one.

I began the teardown on Jan 29, and quickly found my suspicions were correct. Both end tanks of the intercooler were shattered, and it was nowhere near where it was supposed to be.

I also found out later that the battery wasn't hooked up (it was hiding in the trunk, so I didn't notice it on the tow truck), so that probably didn't help it run either... oops.

You can see the intercooler inlet and outlet pipes, as well as the mouthful of dirt.

End of day 1 (about 4 hours) - front body and doors are stripped, front seats out, intake system and radiator removed.

Decided I'd need more storage, so I threw up a dedicated shelf for my toolbox to keep it from taking up space on the workbench.

Added a shelf for parts, and mounted some bins for all the hardware.

End of day 2 (about 5 hours) - interior stripped except for the dash. All wiring from the rear up to the dash has been disconnected and un-mounted. (Ignore the massive sway bar, it's for the Trans Am)

Actually kind of looking forward to the huge task that is adapting the harness. I recently did a similar project on the Trans Am, so I've got a little experience. Details if you're interested: Trans Am rewire project

Day three was stripping the running gear, suspension, brakes, and front crossmember. Brembos won't be used, so they're not in this pile of parts that are to be cleaned, painted, and reused.

Day four was shortened by delivering the hood to a new owner, but I got the powertrain dropped and moved out of the way.

Nearly empty engine bay. All that's left is to pull the dash and wiring out, then remove the shifter and fuel tank.

That's the teardown up to today, I'll be updating as I go with more.

 

[Tony]

Another note, I've been without a good portion of my tools up to this point. I have my socket set and a pair of slip joint pliers and sidecuts, as well as an electric ratchet I'm borrowing, but my tool bag with all my handy tools (specialty pliers, screwdrivers, picks, 3lb hammer, and most importantly my impact driver) is at my parents' house. So it's been an interesting process of trying to do things without all the proper tools. I got the axle nuts off by bracing a piece of flat bar between three of the studs and the floor, then slipping a long pipe over my ratchet.

 

[Adam]

The Crown Royal shift boot and "freshasf*ck" sticker tell me the car was definitely owned by a winner.

Lol! At least it survived long enough to get adopted by you.

You are really flying through the tear down. Thanks for sharing your build and please keep the updates coming.

 

[Tony]

Day 5 was dedicated to yanking out the dash and shifter. Once I got it out, I decided that since I needed to drop the car on its nose to lift the rear and get to the fuel tank, I'd go ahead and move the shell out of the garage while I had it hooked to the hoist. Sidenote - I was able to lift the front of the car by myself, but in the interest of avoiding a hospital trip, I decided it would be better to use the hoist.

Dash and wiring are completely out.

Rearranged a bit to give myself more work space.

Dash is completely stripped, just need to swing by the parts store to pull the steering wheel off the column.

 

[Tony]

Questions at this point: I know that the Turbo kit includes brakes for all 4 corners, but what about hub/bearings? What do I need to save from the donor? I like that the shell is easy to move around with the rear still attached, but if I need to pull those out, I will.

 

[AleX1/9]

Questions at this point: I know that the Turbo kit includes brakes for all 4 corners, but what about hub/bearings? What do I need to save from the donor? I like that the shell is easy to move around with the rear still attached, but if I need to pull those out, I will.

You will re-use all 4 hub / bearing assemblies on the goblin. They can also re-drill them for 5x114.3 bolt pattern for better wheel selection. They have a jig all set up, you just have to ship em. I managed to fit all 4 in a USPS large flat rate box

 

[Tony]

You will re-use all 4 hub / bearing assemblies on the goblin. They can also re-drill them for 5x114.3 bolt pattern for better wheel selection. They have a jig all set up, you just have to ship em. I managed to fit all 4 in a USPS large flat rate box

That's what I was thinking was the case, but just wanted to confirm. It doesn't seem like the rear brakes are that big, why are they not reused?

Got the last of the parts out of the donor. Fuel tank came out to get the pump, pulled out the filler neck, and yanked out the rear hubs. Also got my tool bag back this weekend, note my favorite tools (impact and hammer) front and center. I missed them lol

With the SS fuel system, I didn't see the filter in the same place as in the video, or anywhere else that I could see from where I was laying... does anyone know off hand where it's located?

 

[TheNuker]

Yeah, I also did not see a fuel filter anywhere on my donor. I just bought a new one since it was cheap. Have not installed it yet. I'm going to replace all of my hubs, I guess on the SS/SC you can use the 4 lug hubs which will be awesome for wheel choice!

Nuker-

That's what I was thinking was the case, but just wanted to confirm. It doesn't seem like the rear brakes are that big, why are they not reused?

Got the last of the parts out of the donor. Fuel tank came out to get the pump, pulled out the filler neck, and yanked out the rear hubs. Also got my tool bag back this weekend, note my favorite tools (impact and hammer) front and center. I missed them lol

With the SS fuel system, I didn't see the filter in the same place as in the video, or anywhere else that I could see from where I was laying... does anyone know off hand where it's located?

 

[Tony]

That was kinda my thought. A little reading shows that some SS models just didn't have a filter...

Unfortunately, the SS/TC has massive axles, so no 4-bolt hubs for me. I think I want to go with the Konig Oversteer 16x7.5 to go on the 5x114.3 pattern, but haven't decided for sure yet.

 

[Tony]

As I'm mentally going over the Cobalt, trying to make sure I have all the parts I need, I'm wondering how difficult it would be to maintain the ABS functionality in the Goblin. Besides having to run a second brake line to the rear and keeping the speed sensor wiring, what else would need to be done? And would it even work?

 

[Adam]

That's what I was thinking was the case, but just wanted to confirm. It doesn't seem like the rear brakes are that big, why are they not reused?

I know we looked into using those brakes and if I remember correctly the offset of the rotor and caliper was a problem.

As I'm mentally going over the Cobalt, trying to make sure I have all the parts I need, I'm wondering how difficult it would be to maintain the ABS functionality in the Goblin. Besides having to run a second brake line to the rear and keeping the speed sensor wiring, what else would need to be done? And would it even work?

One big complication for the Goblin is that we run smaller front tires so the front and rear would always see different speeds.

 

[TheNuker]

That was kinda my thought. A little reading shows that some SS models just didn't have a filter...

Unfortunately, the SS/TC has massive axles, so no 4-bolt hubs for me. I think I want to go with the Konig Oversteer 16x7.5 to go on the 5x114.3 pattern, but haven't decided for sure yet.

Yeah, I replaced my axles with stage 1 from ZZP and I figured my donor wheel bearings have 59k miles so I thought why not just replace them now and save a headache at the track later!

Nuker-

 

[Tony]

One big complication for the Goblin is that we run smaller front tires so the front and rear would always see different speeds.

Why is that? I was looking at a square setup, so would it work in that case?

 

[Adam]

Why is that? I was looking at a square setup, so would it work in that case?

Tail heavy cars generally have considerably wider rear tires.

Ariel Atom 3: F-205/50-15 & R-225/45-16
Porsche Cayman: F-235/40-19 R-265/40-19
Formula 1 2017: F305 & R405

 

[Tony]

Yeah, I understand the benefit of having wider tires at the rear, but I wasn't sure if there was some reason for having larger diameter... or is the minor difference caused by not being able to match overall diameter between different widths enough to mess up the ABS?

Short update for yesterday. The parts store steering wheel puller was not able to remove the wheel since there are no threaded holes, and the GM specialty hooks wouldn't fit through the cast holes, so I had to bust out the hammer. Wasn't able to get it with my ball peen, so I had to wait until I got my 3lb back. That got it no problem.

While I was pounding things, I went ahead and tried to remove the infamous spun LCA bushing, which was quite a task without a proper size tool to hit the outer ring. Ended up cutting through from the inside then peeling it out. Got a few dings in the arm, so I don't know if I'll be able to reuse it or not. Anyone know of any good tubular arms apart from the ZZP? Or is it even worth it?

Just for the sake of seeing how well they'd clean up, I hit the LCA with some simple green and a scotch-brite. Pretty impressive results for less than 5 minutes work I'd say.

 

[JSATX]

Yeah, I understand the benefit of having wider tires at the rear, but I wasn't sure if there was some reason for having larger diameter... or is the minor difference caused by not being able to match overall diameter between different widths enough to mess up the ABS?

Turbo cars shouldn't even mess with anything narrower than 235's. That pretty much pushes you into 17" wheels. But 17" wheels are too heavy for the front of the car, so downsize there for weight reduction. At least that's how I rationalized my decision anyway.

 

[Adam]

Turbo cars shouldn't even mess with anything narrower than 235's.

The Ariel Atom 3 with 300hp runs alright with the 225 Toyo Proxes R888s on the rear:

"Also take note of what the track-focused Atom does without: ridiculously wide tires (just 205/50R-15 fronts and 225/45R-16 rears)"
Car and Driver 'Ariel Atom 3'

However, the Atom 3S puts out 365 hp so the rear tires are upped to 245 on a 16 inch wheel: 205/50-15 F x 245/45-16 R. It also runs the R888s.

 

[TheNuker]

My ball joints looked not great, so I replaced both arms with Moog brand. I think they were around 90$ each.

Nuker-

Yeah, I understand the benefit of having wider tires at the rear, but I wasn't sure if there was some reason for having larger diameter... or is the minor difference caused by not being able to match overall diameter between different widths enough to mess up the ABS?

Short update for yesterday. The parts store steering wheel puller was not able to remove the wheel since there are no threaded holes, and the GM specialty hooks wouldn't fit through the cast holes, so I had to bust out the hammer. Wasn't able to get it with my ball peen, so I had to wait until I got my 3lb back. That got it no problem.

While I was pounding things, I went ahead and tried to remove the infamous spun LCA bushing, which was quite a task without a proper size tool to hit the outer ring. Ended up cutting through from the inside then peeling it out. Got a few dings in the arm, so I don't know if I'll be able to reuse it or not. Anyone know of any good tubular arms apart from the ZZP? Or is it even worth it?

Just for the sake of seeing how well they'd clean up, I hit the LCA with some simple green and a scotch-brite. Pretty impressive results for less than 5 minutes work I'd say.

 

[Tony]

The Ariel Atom 3 with 300hp runs alright with the 225 Toyo Proxes R888s on the rear:

"Also take note of what the track-focused Atom does without: ridiculously wide tires (just 205/50R-15 fronts and 225/45R-16 rears)"
Car and Driver 'Ariel Atom 3'

However, the Atom 3S puts out 365 hp so the rear tires are upped to 245 on a 16 inch wheel: 205/50-15 F x 245/45-16 R. It also runs the R888s.

What a coincidence, I was also planning to run the R888 haha. As I said before, I was looking at either the Konig Oversteer or Runlite, both of which are available in 16x7.5 (which will work with a 245), but not in 15" sizes. So I was planning on the 225/45 and/or the 245/45, either staggered or square with either. My question is, if I do go square, could I make the ABS work? I'm not dead-set on making it work, but with the ridiculous amount of power, it certainly can't hurt to be able to stop confidently and quickly without fear of ruining a $300+ pair of tires.

My ball joints looked not great, so I replaced both arms with Moog brand. I think they were around 90$ each.

From a quick look, my ball joints look ok. Does Moog make aluminum arms? All I've seen is their steel FE1 pieces. The FE5 arms are $100 each on amazon though, so if I need to, that's not a bad option.

 

[Lonny]

I just read the ABS description and operation section in our GM service manual.
If you could get it to function properly it would be really cool.

Some challenges

When the ABS activates it will likely over power is braking pulses. This will need to be adjusted in the ECM.

The yaw rate sensor will need to be adjusted for timing and intensity and it needs to be relearned how to deal with loose and tight conditions.

The location of the ABS unit is critical and will need to be calibrated. During a spin if the ABS is located up front it will see it as yaw. If the ABS is located in the rear it will see it as both yaw and lateral acceleration.

The ABS will want to see the front tire speed sensors in the front but when the system detects the front tires slipping during braking the ECM commands the engine to add torque to the drive wheels which are now in the rear.