Removing refrigerant

aaronbuley

Well-Known Member
How did you guys do it?
I’ve called 50 different places and nobody wants to come out and do it. I’m wishing I had done it before I started taking it apart.

I don’t have an empty canister to put it in.
 

Ross

Goblin Guru
I had a hard time too. I phoned prospective automotive places, and asked if they are environmentally friendly, then asked if I could get my refrigerant removed. I brought the car to them. Prices were $170 to $40... quite a range! $40 got my work... then they did it for $20!
 

aaronbuley

Well-Known Member
I had a hard time too. I phoned prospective automotive places, and asked if they are environmentally friendly, then asked if I could get my refrigerant removed. I brought the car to them. Prices were $170 to $40... quite a range! $40 got my work... then they did it for $20!
yeah.... really wishing i had done this BEFORE i started tearing it down. there's no moving it now.
 

Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
Small mom and pop HVAC places are usually willing to do it, if you explain what you are doing. Had a guy down the street from me do it for $40 on a Sunday.
 

ZacMaster

Well-Known Member
Also, keep in mind that it is illegal to unscrew the black protective cap on the A/C lines on the left side of the engine bay and push a skinny screwdriver in the valve (kind of like a schrader valve on a car tire). It's also illegal to wrap a couple shop towels around the screwdriver because there will be an illegal yellow-ish (oil) mist that will illegally spray out with the refrigerant. It also makes a little bit of a loud noise (like hissing air out of a tire). That noise might be illegal too.

Also, there might be some further illegal drippage onto your garage floor when you unhook your illegally-drained system because the oil settles near the bottom of the ac lines/compressor. This puddle on the floor is also illegal.

(There might be a second cap on the right side of the engine bay, I can't remember. It would also be illegal to check this one with a skinny screwdriver, too.)

Don't break the law. Don't do it.

The good news: it's not illegal to ventilate your garage well. I've read where some people hook up some box fans to make sure the illegally-dumped gas does not end up in your lungs.
 

Ross

Goblin Guru
Well, yeah, but every ounce of "new" refrigerant kills 600X that amount of ozone. The old Freon was 3x as bad as the new stuff... still both are pretty hard on the ozone.

A little research shows that I was wrong... Glad to be wrong, for the sake of the environment. Here is what I learned:

R134a possesses the zero potential destruction of the ozone layer (PDOL), and its potential of global warming (PGW) of carbonic acid is 1 300, which is much more lower than the PGW of R-12, which is 8 500.
 
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Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
Also, keep in mind that it is illegal to unscrew the black protective cap on the A/C lines on the left side of the engine bay and push a skinny screwdriver in the valve (kind of like a schrader valve on a car tire). It's also illegal to wrap a couple shop towels around the screwdriver because there will be an illegal yellow-ish (oil) mist that will illegally spray out with the refrigerant. It also makes a little bit of a loud noise (like hissing air out of a tire). That noise might be illegal too.

Also, there might be some further illegal drippage onto your garage floor when you unhook your illegally-drained system because the oil settles near the bottom of the ac lines/compressor. This puddle on the floor is also illegal.

(There might be a second cap on the right side of the engine bay, I can't remember. It would also be illegal to check this one with a skinny screwdriver, too.)

Don't break the law. Don't do it.

The good news: it's not illegal to ventilate your garage well. I've read where some people hook up some box fans to make sure the illegally-dumped gas does not end up in your lungs.
I can see a whole bus load of treehuggers are on their way from California to Wichita as I write this, because someone was 'discussing' increasing the global warming quotient - God forbid!!! :rolleyes:
 

jamesm

Goblin Guru
I trailered my donor down to a local shop and the guy drained the a/c system for free. I'm sure he'll make more money reselling that refrigerant than he would have been able to charge me.
 

Lonny

Administrator
Staff member
I was just reading about R134a safety. Apparently it is not an ozone depleting gas like I had thought but it is still not great for the environment. It contributes to global warming, although not on the scale of burning fossil fuels. Fossil fuels are really bad but people need electricity and transportation.

Also I think it is illegal to vent R134a into the atmosphere but the reality is that auto manufacturers know that probably 90 percent of the R134a they pump into a soft aluminum A/C system mounted at the nose of automobiles does not get recycled.

What is also odd is that R134a is used in canned air and sold all over the world for people to vent into the atmosphere.

I have goblin builders ask me occasionally if they should vent their a/c systems. After reading about venting canned air I don't see the difference.


What do you guys think?
 

Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
In my opinion, if you have the means to get your system pumped down, then please do so. Zacmaster was correct in his comment above - it is 'illegal' to check your system and see if there is gas in it and to see if there enough oil to lubricate your system, but if it escapes during this 'check' it cannot be construed as an illegal release.
 
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ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
When cars are being recycled, do they pump all of those systems first? Just curious, I don't know if they do or not.
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
An interesting side note, many years ago when I was younger, my dad had used propane to recharge his continuously leaking AC system in his car. Back then, it might have been the R-12 being used. It worked, and it worked better than R-12 because the boiling point of propane is actually much lower than R-12. Most people comment that it would explode but actually there is so little in there that at best it would be a flame or small short-lived torch if it was actually leaking that bad and ignited. And since he worked for a propane dealer, he had an endless supply of it, and he knew all about it.
 

Karter2026

Goblin Guru
An interesting side note, many years ago when I was younger, my dad had used propane to recharge his continuously leaking AC system in his car. Back then, it might have been the R-12 being used. It worked, and it worked better than R-12 because the boiling point of propane is actually much lower than R-12. Most people comment that it would explode but actually there is so little in there that at best it would be a flame or small short-lived torch if it was actually leaking that bad and ignited. And since he worked for a propane dealer, he had an endless supply of it, and he knew all about it.
Propane along with a few other items will work in a/c systems. That is all well and fine until you sell the car or take it in for some type of service. That requires them to vac the a/c out. That's when it gets ugly. It will plug filters on the recovery system and contaminate the 30lb can that is on the machine. No one will take the can for recycling since it is contaminated.

I took a class on the new refrigerant R1234yf last fall. Works almost the same as the R134a It is the cost that is the issue. R134a you can get on sale for about $99 for a 30lb drum The new R1234yf was about $750 the last time I checked.
 

Lonny

Administrator
Staff member
Another thing that I don't understand is how are they allowed to sell the r134a self refill cans at every gas station, Walmart and auto parts stores knowing that the reason someone is buying it is because their system leaks.

It is guaranteed that everyone of those self fill cans are eventually going to be vented to the atmosphere.

If they did not sell those self refill cans more people would take their cars to a professional to have their air conditioners fixed and far more refrigerant would get recycled and less would get vented.

I have to say every so often I have to add a little refrigerant to my old truck. I guilty.
 

Paperscale

Member
Another thing that I don't understand is how are they allowed to sell the r134a self refill cans at every gas station, Walmart and auto parts stores knowing that the reason someone is buying it is because their system leaks.

It is guaranteed that everyone of those self fill cans are eventually going to be vented to the atmosphere.

If they did not sell those self refill cans more people would take their cars to a professional to have their air conditioners fixed and far more refrigerant would get recycled and less would get vented.

I have to say every so often I have to add a little refrigerant to my old truck. I guilty.
It does seem "wrong" that they can sell it everywhere, and for so cheap too, but man am I glad they do. Had an old beater that just needed one can and that AC worked like a charm for at least the 2 years I had it. Taking it to a professional would have cost more than the cars worth!
 

Karter2026

Goblin Guru
It does seem "wrong" that they can sell it everywhere, and for so cheap too,

Taking it to a professional would have cost more than the cars worth!
The way it stands right now You can buy a a 12oz. can with no license. If you want a 30lb drum it requires a license to buy it.

Not really all that expensive, I have access to a vacuum pump ($40 at harbor freight) not a complete recovery system. I did my Suburban last year for about $225 That was a new compressor, condenser, accumulator, orifice tube and O rings. No leaks and when done it was colder than when I got it.

A lot of times people would say I can survive without air and not fix the a/c. With some of the newer systems the compressors are a variable displacement type. They run constantly so when it looses its charge the oil circulation goes away and that is it. The compressor stalls and it burns the belt off. So far I have found those systems to be pricey.
 
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