KingChuck24
Well-Known Member
If we went the route of getting a new fuse box is it a drop it or would it require programming?
Anti-Theft
- Thread starter KingChuck24
- Start date
KingChuck24
Well-Known Member
We just decided to order a new fuse box to see if that solves any issues, it is returnable so if not we can just send it back.
KingChuck24
Well-Known Member
Got back to working today and the new fuse box came in. We installed that with no issue and tried starting with the same result. The run crank relay is flipping back and forth extremely fast like last time when we tried to start it and the dash is blinking almost every light as well. Tested the ip/ign fuse for 12 volts and got nothing. This leads me to believe that it has something to do with wiring or it is some other underlying issue.
Ross
Goblin Guru
Maybe your 12V battery is low on charge. Check it, charge it, or use a jump pack on it. Maybe the voltage is dropping real low when the starter motor is trying to get 100A out of the battery.
Let's back up... and find out where the wires are failing
Maybe the Instrument Panel/Ignition fuse blew. With the IP/IGN fuse installed, check for 12V+ on both posts of that fuse.
1. Do both posts have 12V+?
The BCM IP/IGN fuse gets power from the RUN/CRANK relay. Remove that relay, turn the key to RUN, test the fuse box.
2. Does the fuse box have 12V+ on the slots for relay pin 30 or 87?
That fuse gets power from the fuse box jump post (under the red cap).
3. Does that post have 12V+?
Let's back up... and find out where the wires are failing
Maybe the Instrument Panel/Ignition fuse blew. With the IP/IGN fuse installed, check for 12V+ on both posts of that fuse.
1. Do both posts have 12V+?
The BCM IP/IGN fuse gets power from the RUN/CRANK relay. Remove that relay, turn the key to RUN, test the fuse box.
2. Does the fuse box have 12V+ on the slots for relay pin 30 or 87?
That fuse gets power from the fuse box jump post (under the red cap).
3. Does that post have 12V+?
Last edited:
KingChuck24
Well-Known Member
Ok tried putting the jump pack on again with no luck. Something I have noticed is that the battery drops extremely fast, when the key is turned to the run position I can watch it drop about .01 volts every 5-10 seconds or so, not sure if this is normal but I didn't think so.
1. Checked continuity across the posts and it is good. There is not 12 volts across the two posts but, if I instead put a lead on a post and another on ground both of them have 12 volts.
2. This could be it, between pins 30 and 87 I am only getting 4.3 volts, it was doing the same thing before though so not sure. Also when I attach the leads the dash turns on and disables the anti theft so not sure if that means anything either.
3. Good 12 volts
1. Checked continuity across the posts and it is good. There is not 12 volts across the two posts but, if I instead put a lead on a post and another on ground both of them have 12 volts.
2. This could be it, between pins 30 and 87 I am only getting 4.3 volts, it was doing the same thing before though so not sure. Also when I attach the leads the dash turns on and disables the anti theft so not sure if that means anything either.
3. Good 12 volts
Ross
Goblin Guru
Okay, so you aren't getting 12V+ to the ip/ign fuse. It should have 12V+ when the key is on. Did you test it with the ignition in the run position?
Wait... What? Now you do have 12V+ to both posts on the ip/ign fuse?
If test #1 has 12V+, then you contradicted your earlier statement, or the car just fixed itself... or I am confused.
You are learning how to use an electrical meter? Normally you wouldn't test for 12 volts across the two posts. Yes! you put one lead on ground.
Well if test #1 has 12V+, then we don't need to do tests 2 & 3, as the RUN/CRANK relay is working now.
I'm still thinking your battery voltage is dropping below 9V+ when the key is in the crank position. Not sure if your meter can check the voltage if the run crank relay is flipping back and forth extremely fast... but you could try.
Maybe take the battery to an automotive store, and get them to test it... or swap it out with a known good battery.
Last edited:
Ross
Goblin Guru
Another possibility is there is still a grounding issue.
These guys tracked down a bad ground to the ECM.
These guys tracked down a bad ground to the ECM.
KingChuck24
Well-Known Member
Well I guess I'm an idiot because I thought that I was supposed to run the leads from both posts of the fuse but not from the ground. I have all day to work so I will be able to test the voltage of the battery when I try to crank. Issue is that I already tried putting the jumper on and still no luck, it could also be a bad jumper because I tried jumping my lawn mower with it and it didn't really work that well, had to charge the battery for a bit then jump.
Just looking back though, it could be a loose pin on the fuse box side because now we know the fuse is actually getting power. I will again check grounds and go through it all again.
Edit: Just thinking about it a little more I was able to get the starter to crank by attaching the positive lead so it might not be the battery but I will still test.
Just looking back though, it could be a loose pin on the fuse box side because now we know the fuse is actually getting power. I will again check grounds and go through it all again.
Edit: Just thinking about it a little more I was able to get the starter to crank by attaching the positive lead so it might not be the battery but I will still test.
KingChuck24
Well-Known Member
Ok just ran some of the tests they did in their video. Tried jumping the crank relay and only heard a couple of clicks from the starter but no starting. Last time I tried this anti theft engaged but this time the key was in and it did not engage. Going to try a couple of other things like jumping the battery while jumping the crank relay. For reference, I was jumping between 87 and 30.
Dale E
Well-Known Member
So let's trace some connections, okay?
Battery positive (red) from battery to the starter (big bolt on solenoid). Large Alternator positive feed (red) to the same solenoid bolt.
Battery positive (red) from battery OR the solenoid bolt you attached the battery and alternator to the engine fuse block positive bolt..
Purple wire from fuse box to small terminal bolt on solenoid.
Battery negative to the side bolt on battery tray?? Make sure paint is cleared for good connection.
Battery negative cable from a bell housing bolt to the negative bolt under the fuse block outside by chassis tubes? Clear paint.
For the Goblin builders - is there a battery connection for the battery positive (smaller wire) to the front (footwell) fuse box? Also another negative to that?
Hopefully got all the large major positive/negative connections listed.
On the original Cobalt's, there was a bundle of maybe 5 or 6 black - black/white small ground wires running to G-105 (which would have been on the bellhousing or transmission area). One of these connects to the crank or run rank relay for the ECM grounding to the starter.
Okay that's all I can think of without having a Cobalt or Goblin..
Also, when you first posted about this no start, I believe you had the positive lead to a starter/bellhousing bolt?? And you stated there was a good spark when attaching the battery post? You are now getting a solenoid click with no start, so it it possible you fried your starter?? Does the starter run if you jump the purple wire to the battery positive wire on the solenoid?
Battery positive (red) from battery to the starter (big bolt on solenoid). Large Alternator positive feed (red) to the same solenoid bolt.
Battery positive (red) from battery OR the solenoid bolt you attached the battery and alternator to the engine fuse block positive bolt..
Purple wire from fuse box to small terminal bolt on solenoid.
Battery negative to the side bolt on battery tray?? Make sure paint is cleared for good connection.
Battery negative cable from a bell housing bolt to the negative bolt under the fuse block outside by chassis tubes? Clear paint.
For the Goblin builders - is there a battery connection for the battery positive (smaller wire) to the front (footwell) fuse box? Also another negative to that?
Hopefully got all the large major positive/negative connections listed.
On the original Cobalt's, there was a bundle of maybe 5 or 6 black - black/white small ground wires running to G-105 (which would have been on the bellhousing or transmission area). One of these connects to the crank or run rank relay for the ECM grounding to the starter.
Okay that's all I can think of without having a Cobalt or Goblin..
Also, when you first posted about this no start, I believe you had the positive lead to a starter/bellhousing bolt?? And you stated there was a good spark when attaching the battery post? You are now getting a solenoid click with no start, so it it possible you fried your starter?? Does the starter run if you jump the purple wire to the battery positive wire on the solenoid?
KingChuck24
Well-Known Member
All are good except for the bell housing and the purple wire. Could you provide a little more description possibly? I have a wire attached to the starter solenoid but I am not sure the path it takes to the fuse box, where might that one connect? Not sure where the wire is from the bell housing, would it attach to the ground under the fuse box that is on the frame? If so I only have the harness wires grounded there.
KingChuck24
Well-Known Member
Ok found these hole on the bell crank housing, is this a ground point and does it lead to the frame?
Goblinfanclub1234
Well-Known Member
I have seen this labeled G107 on some of the variations of this platform, here is a picture of where another user mounted theirs. I ran a nice thick ground wire from the trans housing to the rear driver side ground bolt by the fuse box. The alternator and the starter both use the engine block as a ground. Seems like this ground wire gets corroded and loses connection on some cars that spent a lot of time in winter climates.
this ground is not to be confused with the wire that connects to +12V at the starter and goes to the positive post on top of the fuse box.
this ground is not to be confused with the wire that connects to +12V at the starter and goes to the positive post on top of the fuse box.
Dale E
Well-Known Member
A large red wire like on the battery positive goes from starter to battery positive post on engine fuse box..
A purple wire should run from the starter small post to the ignition?? When you turn the key to start the purple wire sends power to the starter solenoid.
The smaller black - black/white wire grounds the starter relay in the engine fuse box, and should be in your harness grounds wherever you have them mounted.
The Goblin builders are going to have to help you figure out where your purple wire runs to and from.
A ground size wire like on the battery should run from a chassis bolt point to a bell housing/transmission bolt.
In your earlier post in log #35 you posted pictures of your starter solenoid. You have too many wires on your starter inn that picture!! The two large red wires are maybe okay --- the one with red n it and the other one above it. Both of these are in a loom covering. I think the large black wire just might be a ground wire and should not be there --- take it off and put it on a bellhousing bolt (you can jump it for testing. The way the picture shows it you have the battery positive wire and the positive wire to the engine fuse box post on the large terminal. The black wire with the green corrosion is a ground wire ???? please check. Remove that black wire.. There however should be a medium size red wire from the alternator to that bolt on solinoid. If not then your battery will not charge. Is that black wire in picture the alternator wire maybe?? You do have the purple wire hooked where it needs to be on solenoid. If that black wire is a ground, then you have the battery straight to ground.
A purple wire should run from the starter small post to the ignition?? When you turn the key to start the purple wire sends power to the starter solenoid.
The smaller black - black/white wire grounds the starter relay in the engine fuse box, and should be in your harness grounds wherever you have them mounted.
The Goblin builders are going to have to help you figure out where your purple wire runs to and from.
A ground size wire like on the battery should run from a chassis bolt point to a bell housing/transmission bolt.
In your earlier post in log #35 you posted pictures of your starter solenoid. You have too many wires on your starter inn that picture!! The two large red wires are maybe okay --- the one with red n it and the other one above it. Both of these are in a loom covering. I think the large black wire just might be a ground wire and should not be there --- take it off and put it on a bellhousing bolt (you can jump it for testing. The way the picture shows it you have the battery positive wire and the positive wire to the engine fuse box post on the large terminal. The black wire with the green corrosion is a ground wire ???? please check. Remove that black wire.. There however should be a medium size red wire from the alternator to that bolt on solinoid. If not then your battery will not charge. Is that black wire in picture the alternator wire maybe?? You do have the purple wire hooked where it needs to be on solenoid. If that black wire is a ground, then you have the battery straight to ground.
KingChuck24
Well-Known Member
Hooray engine started! Issue was the ground going from the frame to the engine… feeling very stupid right now. At least I learned a bunch more about wiring and electrical than I used to, sorry Ross for causing you so much trouble. Engine runs good then sputters out after about 5 seconds, I will probably start a new thread about this in the future after I go through all of the common causes though. Thanks Dale and Ross for all the help!
KingChuck24
Well-Known Member
Haha ya, some thanksgiving festivities!