Azmoto Goblin no start @cold

Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
Anyone with an answer for this one: Paul's Goblin (SS/TC '09) won't fire off when it is cold. Cranking is fine and after about 2 minutes of spinning it over it will start and idle just fine. Turn it off and it fires right over. Anyone think this is temp related? The MAF and both MAPs are installed correctly, no vacuum leaks can be detected.

The other issue is for the short time it has been driven, feels like the timing is pulled way back. There is not a lot boost 3-4 psi.

Need a quick answer if anyone has ideas. Thanks!
 

Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
Really need more info.

There are things related to ECT in the tune or the MAF may off calibration enough in the start idle areas that it isn't getting enough fuel (if it even uses MAF on start up, the LNF still has a lot of mysteries).

Or a vacuum leak that causes it to be to lean on cold start up.

Or Issues with fuel pressure.

Is this a confirmed stock tune?
 

Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
More info: Paul has the Opel fuel injectors installed - about 15 % more squirter than stock. He has the stock LNF tune installed.

We do smell a little fuel when cranking, so it might be too rich? Paul has HP Tuners, we could try to pull the fuel PW back a bit at start?
 

Ross

Goblin Guru
Is this a first start?
The E85 will lean out the mixture 30% and the bigger injectors will richen it 15%.
I would go back to basics. 91 octane, stock injectors, stock tune, and see if it will run.
 

Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
Not really a first start. Paul has had it out for a drive at least once already. His problem is getting it started when cold. Once the engine is warmed up enough to come off high idle, it starts thereafter when warm.

When cold, it takes lots of cranking before it tries to fire off - usually with a backfire - then it starts rough and smooths out as it warms up. Hitting it with a shot of starter fluid on the air filter gets it to fire off after about 5-10 cranks.

I checked everything visually - the MAF (arrow correct direction), the 3 wire MAP is in the intake manifold and the 4 wire MAP is in the intake pipe in front of the throttle body. All vacuum lines are connected correctly with no open ports.

Keep in mind that replacing the FIs on the LNF requires removing the intake manifold to get to the bolts - much more difficult than a LSJ or NA.

This one is a real head scratcher.
 

Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
Idling rough until warm is very common on even slightly tuned LNF's and only a few of the experienced tuners have cracked it. Mine does it. I will try and smooth it out next summer. So the cranking and rough idle may not be related..

You only have a few tables to work with on the LNF. I will have to look and see what is available for changing the fueling on start up. I don't think there is much. I would guess that a stock tune on E85 isn't helping much and what is the cold temp? E85 is harder to start when cold.

Is this an ATK crate with intake and turbo? Mine had a 4 bar map sensor in the intake manifold that the tune had to be adjusted for. The MAF likely needs tuning and both MAP sensors should be confirmed by part number.

Quickly looking on HPT, injector constant needs increasing some. I would go back and tune it with Gasoline to start with and then tune to E85. Most of the LNF gurus say that E47 (50% premium, 50% E85) is the best bet. I haven't studied it enough to know all of the reasons why other than lack of fuel pressure up top. Larger injectors will help here, maybe, but all of this needs to be tuned correctly.
LNF E85 Info Thread - Page 2 (hptuners.com)
 

TravMac

Well-Known Member
Any of the tuned e85 LSJ motors I have running start rough in the cold too. Most of the cold issue is just due to chemistry of e85 vs gasoline. Although like a few others have said, the tuning is going to be the biggest help here.

For the situation, it sounds like the engine is cranking enough to build some heat for the inappropriate mixture of fuel. Once it does fire, theres enough adjustment by the computer to run and get some heat into the system. Although even then, it does seem lean, so thats not the best to run long term. But once you get heat, then makes sense starts would be no issue. The computer is just limping itself by.

Honestly zzp might have a plug and play tune to get the combination closer. Would be a better starting point than the base gas tune and not very cost prohibitive.
 
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Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
I hope he isn't planning on jumping back and forth from straight gas to E85. The LNF really won't do that without changing the tune.
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Could this be a problem with the open loop? Is it better when in closed loop. On my engine (LSJ) it only takes a minute or so to go into closed loop.
 

Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
You don’t have control of open loop closed loop on the LNF. This really is because of trying to run E85 without tuning for it.
 
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