ccgillett's Track Goblin - '08 SS/TC

ccgillett

Well-Known Member
As far as I know the DF supplied intercooler for the LNF is Air to water already no? Most of us have switched to the Air to air simply to help avoid heat soaking. But I agree the Air/water is a clean look!

Nuker-
Possibly yes, but this is a kit-in-progress. It came with the donor/stock a2a intercooler, and a new-in-box a2a intercooler...unclear if the new-in-box intercooler came from DF or was sourced from another vendor (pretty sure DF).
 

Ross

Goblin Guru
Yes, you are on the right track. That kit will work. Not sure where you want the heat exchanger. Maybe sideways in the rear?

Frozen boost also makes that A2W intercooler an inch thicker, and twice the surface area for $160 here, which is the same cost as the intercooler in the kit you found. DF uses Frozen Boost to supply the heat exchanger. A 10" fan is also available, as is the intercooler pump. So I bought another heat exchanger since the intercooler is 2x sized, the heat exchanger should be sized to match.... I'm thinking about moving the heat exchangers to the sides of the goblin, either down low, or up at window heighth, and running a bit of duct work to scoop air thru them.
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ccgillett

Well-Known Member
@Ross awesome reply, thanks so much! I

I'm planning to put the heat exchanger up front, same as what @Lonny did with his build. I ordered the NACA duct kit from DF today. Since it's going up front I'm not sure a thicker intercooler will work. Thinking I'll go with the kit as spec'd and if it runs too hot maybe do a second heat exchanger.
 

Scott #321

Well-Known Member
I went with upgraded intercooler from the get go as I intend to upgrade boost in the future. Type 10 A2W intercooler and Type 117 heat exchanger from Frozen boost. Tim Moland had a thread on excessive KR which discussed the many options available with pro's and con's. I cannot locate the 117 heat exchanger in the front but decided the tradeoff was worth it for me.
 

Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
My 2 cents: the intercooler and heat exchanger sizing is critical to making good HP - obviously - but the sizing is the key. The DF intercooler, at a 9.25x3.5x3.5 core size, has 113 cubic inches in heat transfer volume. This core is at the theoretical low end of sizing for a 260HP LNF, which is good enough for a street driven car at moderate ambient temperatures. The matching heat exchanger - not sure what size is supplied by DF - must be equal to or larger in core volume to adequately remove the heat from the intercooler, given adequate air flow.

The attached chart from a German racing source gives approximate sizing, with some generous margin, for intercooler core sizing from a race car application. Cutting this core sizing in half would define a more than adequate intercooler size for a street Goblin.

From this chart the 113 cubic inch DF intercooler, based on the 1/2 sizing from the chart is good for just over 200HP plus generous margin. So it is right at the low end of providing adequate cooling. Uprising from the DF intercooler for any increase in HP from stock is a must, especially if driving in warmer temperatures.

I have taken this to heart and will be installing a larger intercooler with a 11x10x4.5 core with 492 cubic inch volume to compensate for the much higher ambient temperatures in Phoenix and the planned bump up from the stock LNF 260HP. And didn't forget about the heat exchangers - dual KZ750 radiators at 500 cubic inch volume. ;)
 

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Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
Two heat exchangers is probably the answer, since you will be running more power than stock. There are some pretty good installation ideas on the forum, one of which will like fit your looks, budget and preferred mounting location. To make it most efficient, plan on some duct work. ;)
 

ccgillett

Well-Known Member
Two heat exchangers is probably the answer, since you will be running more power than stock. There are some pretty good installation ideas on the forum, one of which will like fit your looks, budget and preferred mounting location. To make it most efficient, plan on some duct work. ;)
Thanks again, I'll be searching the forums further - I've seen a lot of good stuff out there already. FWIW, us n00bs are very appreciative to everbody who takes and posts high quality build photos...it's incredibly helpful.

Definitely planning on more ductwork, I weirdly have a stash of NACA ducts in the garage/shop...now I apparently know why.
 

ccgillett

Well-Known Member
TC/LNF Air-to-Water folks: Does DF supply the intercooler bracket (for Type 16 ICs) or do I need to fabricate or buy it 3rd party? Some of the threads mentioned a supplied bracket. I reached out to them via email and they're looking into it. If there's a part number that would be helpful.

Also, do you guys run your water lines underneath the car along the floor, or do in the tunnel with the wires and shift cables :eek: ?

Lots of bits have arrived, waiting for some plumbing parts. I want to get this part DONE. :)
 

Brett

Well-Known Member
I have DF made brackets for my air to water intercooler. Not sure of the part number.

I ran my lines in the tunnel alongside everything else.
 

Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
Water Lines are ran through the tunnel. The temps aren't that high. It's really just pex plumbing tubing. The brackets came with my kit but I don't have a part number.
 

ccgillett

Well-Known Member
While waiting to hear from DF about an intercooler bracket, I took a look at the rear suspension assembly work. I'm going through the car bit by bit, essentially verifying and sometimes re-doing previous assembly. This is not a knock on the previous owner, it's just if I'm going to track this thing I want to know precisely how everything goes together and verify it's all good.

The previous builder used what looks to me to be M6 property class 9.8 bolts on the tabs that hold up the rear shocks/springs. My current understanding is that equates to an SAE Grade 5 bolt, which strikes me as not strong enough for the intended use. These appear to be donors from the original car, and don't look like alloy steel. Like many of the parts installed on the car, these were only finger tight when I received it, and trying to secure and torque to a moderate torque resulted in a snapped bolt.

What are you guys using for rear suspension mount bolts, and what torque spec did you use? I think these need to be replaced.

P.S. This is stock rear suspension, I'm mostly likely going to replace with DF-supplied rear coilovers.

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Zoom Zoom

Goblin Guru
While waiting to hear from DF about an intercooler bracket, I took a look at the rear suspension assembly work. I'm going through the car bit by bit, essentially verifying and sometimes re-doing previous assembly. This is not a knock on the previous owner, it's just if I'm going to track this thing I want to know precisely how everything goes together and verify it's all good.

The previous builder used what looks to me to be M6 property class 9.8 bolts on the tabs that hold up the rear shocks/springs. My current understanding is that equates to an SAE Grade 5 bolt, which strikes me as not strong enough for the intended use. These appear to be donors from the original car, and don't look like alloy steel. Like many of the parts installed on the car, these were only finger tight when I received it, and trying to secure and torque to a moderate torque resulted in a snapped bolt.

What are you guys using for rear suspension mount bolts, and what torque spec did you use? I think these need to be replaced.

P.S. This is stock rear suspension, I'm mostly likely going to replace with DF-supplied rear coilovers.

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DF rear coil overs with hardware
 

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ccgillett

Well-Known Member
The latest build update is not major progress, but holding myself accountable - "you need to wrench...every day". Fall is definitely arriving in New England, and I'd love to get to first drive by Thanksgiving.

Getting ready for the next phase, parts are rolling in:

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While I wait for everything to arrive I knocked off a couple small items:

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The car has been sitting for a long time, so I removed the seats and brackets. I'm going to clean the brackets up and paint them this weekend:

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Decided affirmatively to go with the rear coilovers from DF. DF, by the way, has been AWESOME to work with. I've dealt with other kit car companies and the experience with customer service has always been "meh". With DF I get crisp, friendly responses quickly, and follow-through has been great. There's a box on its way here with the rear coilovers and relevant hardware, as well as the brackets and install hardware required for the Type 16 intercooler. It should be here next week. Other random bits and pieces should arrive today.

I hope to get the nose bits of the a2w intercooler solution worked out this weekend, and get on to fabricating the heat exchanger bracket. I don't know how to weld, so I'll be going with a bolt-together/loctite epoxy weld solution. Hopefully it will look good after I paint it.

The pipes and silicone joints I have are for the original air-to-air solution, so I need to spend some time going through them and see if I have the right things to get the a2w airflow routed. If not, I'll order up what I need next week.

The shop needs a good cleaning and organizing, as does the car, so I'll get on that this weekend too. And get those seat brackets painted.

On the drawing board at the moment: in-line air box, and air intake ducting. I'm not thrilled about the air filter just hanging out, and want to do something cleaner.
 

ccgillett

Well-Known Member
Nobody died and no windows were broken removing the stock rear suspension from #13. New coilovers from DF arrive very soon, looking forward to seeing them on the car.

I also found some really awesome photo albums, carefully disguised under the topic "Helpful Photo Albums" :D which will make sorting out the new rear coilovers easier. There are also some great photos of the a2w heat positioned in the nose, which will help make installation easier there as well. Now if I had just ordered a heat exchanger bracket....

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ccgillett

Well-Known Member
Folks, the pipe in the lower right of the photo (with the small hose and wiring attached)...I know it's part of the intake, but what are the small hose/wires for? I went through all the pieces/parts that came with my kit and it wasn't included. I'm looking to understand the part and figure out the part number/vendor so I can order it. Any help appreciated!
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