Desert Sasqwatch #155 Track (mods) - 08 SS/TC crate LNF F40
- Thread starter Desert Sasqwatch
- Start date
Torchandregdoc
Goblin Guru
Holy poop , how many hours did that take. It certainly looks cool.
430 plus holes (is that right, or did I mess up my count) @ . 8oz = 22lbs ish.
5 added.
Net savings 17 lbs
My guess is, you are going to surprise us and say you've trimmed out 30 pounds or so. I couldn't see if you drilled the side of the tunnel.
430 plus holes (is that right, or did I mess up my count) @ . 8oz = 22lbs ish.
5 added.
Net savings 17 lbs
My guess is, you are going to surprise us and say you've trimmed out 30 pounds or so. I couldn't see if you drilled the side of the tunnel.
Desert Sasqwatch
Goblin Guru
Thanks Lonny, that's probably another 5-6 ounces for that plate. All those metal chips are like snowflakes - they add up quick and become pounds after a while! 
I'll let the guesses keep coming in and betting some will change with the additional pics this weekend. BTW, steel is 0.285 lbs per cubic inch for those doing the numbers thing.
I'll let the guesses keep coming in and betting some will change with the additional pics this weekend. BTW, steel is 0.285 lbs per cubic inch for those doing the numbers thing.
Desert Sasqwatch
Goblin Guru
Jim, my car total weight has lost 25 lbs since the project was started - from the guy sitting behind the wheel. I haven't been at or below 250 lbs in 20 plus years. This has been a great weight loss program, maybe Lonny and Adam could state this as an extra benefit - no extra charge!
Desert Sasqwatch
Goblin Guru
Nope. Every hole will be covered by a panel, so no whistles.
Desert Sasqwatch
Goblin Guru
Does anyone think the Cobalt subframe is way too heavy? In my wandering engineering mind, why can't the heavy subframe be replaced with a structural tube frame? This opens up a lot of possibilities for an altered or different rear suspension and could be designed to allow for a decent rear diffuser to create some decent down force - to go with the fully flat floor pan. It would definitely by lighter.
JBINTX
Goblin Guru
It is indeed heavy. But it is not just supporting the engine. My guess is all the forces from the wheel ends end up being carried by the subframe back into the vehicle. When you have multiple forces acting in different planes/directions, you have to add up all those force components in the common direction and then add a safety factor on top of that for structure sizing criteria. The GM engineers probably made some conservative assumptions along the way as well. And steel is cheap.
Just my guess.....
Just my guess.....
Torchandregdoc
Goblin Guru
And the car weighed twice as much.It is indeed heavy. But it is not just supporting the engine. My guess is all the forces from the wheel ends end up being carried by the subframe back into the vehicle. When you have multiple forces acting in different planes/directions, you have to add up all those force components in the common direction and then add a safety factor on top of that for structure sizing criteria. The GM engineers probably made some conservative assumptions along the way as well. And steel is cheap.
Just my guess.....
Tim, you need to do IRS and takes notes so we can duplicate it.
JBINTX
Goblin Guru
that is true!
ncgoblin
Goblin Guru
2 lbs removedSpeed holes are happening all over, Racer X has been working overtime - when it not hot as hades in the garage - to make sure my frame doesn't get too porky.
3 lbs steel added
8 lbs beer fat added during drilling process
Naaaww... that's just added internal fuel capacity.... for those loooong (over 15mins.) trips....
Desert Sasqwatch
Goblin Guru
Apparently you didn't read this post about losing 25 lbs?
Desert Sasqwatch Track Extended - 08 SS/TC LNF F40
You gave a mouse a frame and he made Swiss cheese of it!!!!!!........... ;) 1.4 lbs removed 2.9 lbs added
Desert Sasqwatch
Goblin Guru
The subframe was designed as most other automotive components - the design team makes a part that meets 100% of the design and performance requirements, then the lawyers and bean counters make them add 50-100% more margin (and weight) to the part for corporate insurance reasons. So the subframe is somewhere around 150-200% of the design requirements for a 3200lb. car. So bolting the subframe into a 1600lb car, the subframe is 300-400% of the design that would be necessary for the Goblin.It is indeed heavy. But it is not just supporting the engine. My guess is all the forces from the wheel ends end up being carried by the subframe back into the vehicle. When you have multiple forces acting in different planes/directions, you have to add up all those force components in the common direction and then add a safety factor on top of that for structure sizing criteria. The GM engineers probably made some conservative assumptions along the way as well. And steel is cheap.
Just my guess.....
Agreed that some engineering to design a tube subframe that would mate up to the Goblin frame and correctly carry the engine torque and suspension loads would require some work. It would definitely be lighter, but the biggest benefit that I see is in the possibilities for the rear suspension. There are so many different options - modified strut, double a-arm, or ??? I've been sketching some ideas up but nothing I would want share yet, since it is definitely in need of some CAD analysis.
On the other hand, removing some weight from the Cobalt subframe would not be a bad idea.
Tinkles
Well-Known Member
They are already IRS.... But I would love a different rear suspension design. McPherson strut design leaves a lot to be desired.
For the subframe. The engine doesn't mount it. The transmission is solid mounted to the frame. Really the most the 2 transmission mounts on the subframe do is limit the engine/transmissions rotation under torque. But since engine and transmission are solid mounted to the frame, the mounts don't really have a job to do. All you really need the subframe for is the mounting points for the control arms. Box tubing for the sides and run some round stock to tie everything together.
Desert Sasqwatch
Goblin Guru
It's all about the camber gain during compression that severely limits a strut suspension. For a street car it is okay and provides an adequate ride and handling. But for a track duty car the camber gain is as important as the front suspension and can be a limiting factor when pushing the car at the limits. Like I originally stated, this was something I have been thinking about - on those 110 degree +days we were having when working in the garage was not going to happen. Wanted to see what others were thinking on this.
Desert Sasqwatch
Goblin Guru
Ran out of time over the weekend, the honey-do list got in the way of taking pictures. I will get them this coming weekend and will see how imaginative the weight guessing can be. And start counting those holes, since the most accurate number will earn you points!Thanks Lonny, that's probably another 5-6 ounces for that plate. All those metal chips are like snowflakes - they add up quick and become pounds after a while!