I am a DF Kit Car customer and have a confession to make...it's pretty awesome!

LLBenJ

Active Member
I'm happy with the final product but the journey was rough. I wouldn't do it again but I'm very grateful for the folks at DF Kit Car. Their product is unique and for those of us with a bucket list, "to build a car", goal it's a very satisfying achievement.

I want to make it clear that I have the greatest respect for DF Kit Car, their capital investors, owners and employees. Owning and operating a small business tough. It can be cutthroat and margins can be tight. I want DF Kit car to not only survive, but thrive.

I'm concerned.

I started out life here on the forum as a pending, and now owner, of a DF Kit Car Goblin. I received my kit and immediately started to notice some discrepancies be it what DF Kit car had advertised, the level of customer service and support they provide, quality and consistency in parts, or what the forum had to offer.

I decided to take a chance and go full tilt stupid with respect to my forum posts. I became a that caustic, toxic, naïve, immature, window licking cuck that engaged in increased levels of stupid that our friend escapepilot (much respect and best of luck with the sale by the way!) put best..."Your attitude reminds me of my son when a Lego set he’s working on isn’t going together like it should. He starts getting upset, frustrated, and throwing a tantrum."

The things I posted in the forum went against everything I have learned about people, communication, life...you name it. It was actually hard for me to come up with some of this bullshit! As a general rule we all know that simply posting nothing is often the best bet. I did it because I thought I could get away with it, based on what I was observing, and here I am today. I was careful not to name drop or target anyone in particular throughout my rants. That isn't productive and we can leave that stuff to the sycophants and politicians.

This asshattery was all planned and executed for a reason and you let me get away with it.

It would have been easy to simply say nothing, do nothing, and continue the sheeple existence. I don't operate that way. This kind of feedback could have been relayed to another kit car manufacturer but here I am. I decided to build a Goblin. I don't think the legacy methods of providing feedback, to modern businesses, are effective. Public sentiment, good and bad, often rule the day and can actually affect change.

I'm a 46 year old retired military officer, combat veteran, well educated (doesn't make me smart!), financially independent and living the good life. I had the pleasure leading, managing and serving with some of the finest our nation has to offer. Command tours, hundreds of troops, multi-million dollar budgets. I even started my own business on the side and was a sole proprietor for years. I share this background only to provide some context for the below messaging.

1. DF Kit Car and their advertising

- "The Goblin is a home-built kit car designed to be fast, fun and easy to assemble."
- "No welding or fabricating skills are required."
- The "no welding", "no cutting/fabrication", "no drilling" symbols

There is clearly cutting, fabrication and drilling taking place in the instructional build videos you produce. Some of us experience higher levels of this due to the trim level of our cars, production years, or condition of the donor vehicle. I, and others, have also had to fabricate and or drill some of the new production parts provided by DF just to install them in the car and ensure they function in concert with the other systems. This wasn't an installer problem. These were out of spec parts, that had to be altered, to function. The list is growing. I was told ad nauseum by many of the long time builders...you know...the masochists (that's for you Desert "speed hole" Sasqwatch! - much respect, seriously) that, and I'm paraphrasing here, everyone knows you'll be drilling, cutting or fabricating. Welcome to kit car building! Yup...and that actually plays into my argument. Even if said builder knows this going in...and I did....your advertising suggests otherwise.

If you can't meet the advertised intent of your product you've shot it down. Maybe it was intended to entice first time builders, like me, but I think it may actually be working against you. You're competitors don't use this verbiage and for a very good reason. It doesn't meet the spirit, intent and it's unethical. It's false advertising. Why paint yourself into a corner? Use general terms that don't elicit preconceived notions. I know the smart folks there can come up with something that fits the needs of their product without stretching the ethical, maybe even legal, boundaries of advertising.

2. Customer Service and Quality Control

- My emails concerning the purchase of a part are usually answered in 24-48hrs
- My emails concerning a technical question about the build were answered in 7-10 days if at all
- I think you're relying on the forum to "carry you" and your business and I'm not sure that's a sustainable option
- Some of the parts you are fielding, new production parts, require altercation, fabrication or drilling to make them work

It's fairly well known that emailing you guys is not the "best" option to get something done. I realize you're a small outfit and you've channeled resources where you need them but relying on the forum to answer technical questions doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy. Call, yup, I've had great phone calls with folks there but I'm not sure them trying to write down the ins and out of a technical question about a build and no lose something in translation is effective. Customers pay a chunk of cash, especially now, to get into these kit cars. I truly appreciate all the help I've received from those on the forum but I've also got bad, flat wrong, information fand that has created more frustration, delays in building, and cost.

The event that initially queued me in on potential problems was missing parts from my kit. DF kit car at no time notified me, or included in the shipment, any idea why these parts were missing. I'm not talking about small pieces of hardware. I'm talking about engine covers and windshields! To top it off...I had to go back and forth with your staff in an attempt for the customer...to prove...that indeed they were not shipped. You told me you had to go back and look "at a photo of the shipment being loaded" to confirm these parts didn't go out. There's got to be a better way to improve the chain of custody in shipping and give some sense of why, and when, the customer will receive their parts.

Did I mention the Stewart driver dropped my frame onto the pavement and injured himself during unloading? He went to emergency care and the frame appeared to be undamaged or compromised.

I've had to alter/cut/bend "fabricate" or "redrill" a number of new parts delivered with the kit. While some of the builders might take this as the next challenge it stings a little bit to cut at, or redrill, the parts you just had powder coated. I don't expect legos but I'm assuming some of these parts have been in distribution for some time, over hundreds of kits, or maybe they were a new addition to the field. Either way, some QC prior to shipping would provide some needed relief on the customers end. I'm shooting for a show level car but all of this "tuner ****" I'm having to complete is eating away at that.

3. The Forum

- I'm glad you've put the effort into building it for the community and absolutely, 100%, helps the builders and brings the "Goblin Family" together
- I think you're over-reliant on it to support your business...I've double tapped that dead horse
- It provides a great resource for builders to ask questions but there's no guarantee one of your customers knows what's best for your product and the person inquiring
- The forum needs more aggressive support, moderation and policing

I see some of the forum members stepping up to take control of post clean up, sticky threads and an assortment of others duties. Thank you!

My 30,000 foot view of the forum and it's reliance upon for the members to complete their builds isn't a problem, until it doesn't exist. Maybe the possibility of the forum being compromised, hacked, deleted or resurrected isn't a contingency you're worried about.

Finally, full circle to my Whiskey Tango Foxtrot forum activity. At no time did a forum owner or moderator reach out to me to ask what was going on, to counsel me, to warn me...nothing. I agree with some of the others that on a lot of forums out there they would have unleashed a Stalinist level of guidance and or Putin levels of ban hammer to bring my stupidity under control. Even after I wrote Adam direct (23 Dec 2022) and recommended the forum be cleaned up and or my account be deleted...nothing occurred. Maybe the inaction...was the action...but I'd suggest some straw man of "what do we do it" is discussed should you run into this again.

Again, I want to make it clear that I have the greatest respect for DF Kit Car, their capital investors, owners and employees. Owning and operating a small business tough. It can be cutthroat and margins can be tight. I want DF Kit car to not only survive, but thrive. I, and I hope others, do not want to wake up one morning and see a post in t he "DF Kit Car News" about closing the business because of X, Y, Z because they suffered a death of a thousand cuts.

My intentions here are truly...truly good. I'm a disabled vet with much less life ahead of me than behind me. Building a kit car was a bucket list item for me. I'm vested in this, I only have one shot, and I hope that lends some truth to how much I really do care about it.

My expected outcome from all of this?

Nothing, zero, zilch. If my words are seen by no one but it's author, and it falls into the limitless pit of internet bianary hot air...so be it. I threw rocks at a glass house, I took a dump where I eat, and expect any and all return fire.

The the single, sole, individual who reach out to me and asked if all was okay and if they could help...thank you. We don't do enough of this in society today and lose brothers and sisters because of it.

What I will do is return to my build, enjoy it, and hopefully be welcome here to continue this awesome community we, and the men of women of DF Kit Car, have built.

Very Respectfully

Your sucka, your busta, your no talent ass clown

DF Kit Car Customer
 
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Ross

Goblin Guru
I want to make it clear that I have the greatest respect for DF Kit Car, their capital investors, owners and employees. Owning and operating a small business tough. It can be cutthroat and margins can be tight. I want DF Kit car to not only survive, but thrive.

I'm concerned.

I started out life here on the forum as a pending, and now owner, of a DF Kit Car Goblin. I received my kit and immediately started to notice some discrepancies be it what DF Kit car had advertised, the level of customer service and support they provide, quality and consistency in parts, or what the forum had to offer.

I decided to take a chance and go full tilt stupid with respect to my forum posts. I became a that caustic, toxic, naïve, immature, window licking cuck that engaged in increased levels of stupid that our friend escapepilot (much respect and best of luck with the sale by the way!) put best..."Your attitude reminds me of my son when a Lego set he’s working on isn’t going together like it should. He starts getting upset, frustrated, and throwing a tantrum."

The things I posted in the forum went against everything I have learned about people, communication, life...you name it. It was actually hard for me to come up with some of this bullshit! As a general rule we all know that simply posting nothing is often the best bet. I did it because I thought I could get away with it, based on what I was observing, and here I am today. I was careful not to name drop or target anyone in particular throughout my rants. That isn't productive and we can leave that stuff to the sycophants and politicians.

This asshattery was all planned and executed for a reason and you let me get away with it.

It would have been easy to simply say nothing, do nothing, and continue the sheeple existence. I don't operate that way. This kind of feedback could have been relayed to another kit car manufacturer but here I am. I decided to build a Goblin. I don't think the legacy methods of providing feedback, to modern businesses, are effective. Public sentiment, good and bad, often rule the day and can actually affect change.

I'm a 46 year old retired military officer, combat veteran, well educated (doesn't make me smart!), financially independent and living the good life. I had the pleasure leading, managing and serving with some of the finest our nation has to offer. Command tours, hundreds of troops, multi-million dollar budgets. I even started my own business on the side and was a sole proprietor for years. I share this background only to provide some context for the below messaging.

1. DF Kit Car and their advertising

- "The Goblin is a home-built kit car designed to be fast, fun and easy to assemble."
- "No welding or fabricating skills are required."
- The "no welding", "no cutting/fabrication", "no drilling" symbols

There is clearly cutting, fabrication and drilling taking place in the instructional build videos you produce. Some of us experience higher levels of this due to the trim level of our cars, production years, or condition of the donor vehicle. I, and others, have also had to fabricate and or drill some of the new production parts provided by DF just to install them in the car and ensure they function in concert with the other systems. This wasn't an installer problem. These were out of spec parts, that had to be altered, to function. The list is growing. I was told ad nauseum by many of the long time builders...you know...the masochists (that's for you Desert "speed hole" Sasqwatch! - much respect, seriously) that, and I'm paraphrasing here, everyone knows you'll be drilling, cutting or fabricating. Welcome to kit car building! Yup...and that actually plays into my argument. Even if said builder knows this going in...and I did....your advertising suggests otherwise.

If you can't meet the advertised intent of your product you've shot it down. Maybe it was intended to entice first time builders, like me, but I think it may actually be working against you. You're competitors don't use this verbiage and for a very good reason. It doesn't meet the spirit, intent and it's unethical. It's false advertising. Why paint yourself into a corner? Use general terms that don't elicit preconceived notions. I know the smart folks there can come up with something that fits the needs of their product without stretching the ethical, maybe even legal, boundaries of advertising.

2. Customer Service and Quality Control

- My emails concerning the purchase of a part are usually answered in 24-48hrs
- My emails concerning a technical question about the build were answered in 7-10 days if at all
- I think you're relying on the forum to "carry you" and your business and I'm not sure that's a sustainable option
- Some of the parts you are fielding, new production parts, require altercation, fabrication or drilling to make them work

It's fairly well known that emailing you guys is not the "best" option to get something done. I realize you're a small outfit and you've channeled resources where you need them but relying on the forum to answer technical questions doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy. Call, yup, I've had great phone calls with folks there but I'm not sure them trying to write down the ins and out of a technical question about a build and no lose something in translation is effective. Customers pay a chunk of cash, especially now, to get into these kit cars. I truly appreciate all the help I've received from those on the forum but I've also got bad, flat wrong, information fand that has created more frustration, delays in building, and cost.

The event that initially queued me in on potential problems was missing parts from my kit. DF kit car at no time notified me, or included in the shipment, any idea why these parts were missing. I'm not talking about small pieces of hardware. I'm talking about engine covers and windshields! To top it off...I had to go back and forth with your staff in an attempt for the customer...to prove...that indeed they were not shipped. You told me you had to go back and look "at a photo of the shipment being loaded" to confirm these parts didn't go out. There's got to be a better way to improve the chain of custody in shipping and give some sense of why, and when, the customer will receive their parts.

Did I mention the Stewart driver dropped my frame onto the pavement and injured himself during unloading? He went to emergency care and the frame appeared to be undamaged or compromised.

I've had to alter/cut/bend "fabricate" or "redrill" a number of new parts delivered with the kit. While some of the builders might take this as the next challenge it stings a little bit to cut at, or redrill, the parts you just had powder coated. I don't expect legos but I'm assuming some of these parts have been in distribution for some time, over hundreds of kits, or maybe they were a new addition to the field. Either way, some QC prior to shipping would provide some needed relief on the customers end. I'm shooting for a show level car but all of this "tuner ****" I'm having to complete is eating away at that.

3. The Forum

- I'm glad you've put the effort into building it for the community and absolutely, 100%, helps the builders and brings the "Goblin Family" together
- I think you're over-reliant on it to support your business...I've double tapped that dead horse
- It provides a great resource for builders to ask questions but there's no guarantee one of your customers knows what's best for your product and the person inquiring
- The forum needs more aggressive support, moderation and policing

I see some of the forum members stepping up to take control of post clean up, sticky threads and an assortment of others duties. Thank you!

My 30,000 foot view of the forum and it's reliance upon for the members to complete their builds isn't a problem, until it doesn't exist. Maybe the possibility of the forum being compromised, hacked, deleted or resurrected isn't a contingency you're worried about.

Finally, full circle to my Whiskey Tango Foxtrot forum activity. At no time did a forum owner or moderator reach out to me to ask what was going on, to counsel me, to warn me...nothing. I agree with some of the others that on a lot of forums out there they would have unleashed a Stalinist level of guidance and or Putin levels of ban hammer to bring my stupidity under control. Even after I wrote Adam direct (23 Dec 2022) and recommended the forum be cleaned up and or my account be deleted...nothing occurred. Maybe the inaction...was the action...but I'd suggest some straw man of "what do we do it" is discussed should you run into this again.

Again, I want to make it clear that I have the greatest respect for DF Kit Car, their capital investors, owners and employees. Owning and operating a small business tough. It can be cutthroat and margins can be tight. I want DF Kit car to not only survive, but thrive. I, and I hope others, do not want to wake up one morning and see a post in t he "DF Kit Car News" about closing the business because of X, Y, Z because they suffered a death of a thousand cuts.

My intentions here are truly...truly good. I'm a disabled vet with much less life ahead of me than behind me. Building a kit car was a bucket list item for me. I'm vested in this, I only have one shot, and I hope that lends some truth to how much I really do care about it.

My expected outcome from all of this?

Nothing, zero, zilch. If my words are seen by no one but it's author, and it falls into the limitless pit of internet bianary hot air...so be it. I threw rocks at a glass house, I took a dump where I eat, and expect any and all return fire.

The the single, sole, individual who reach out to me and asked if all was okay and if they could help...thank you. We don't do enough of this in society today and lose brothers and sisters because of it.

What I will do is return to my build, enjoy it, and hopefully be welcome here to continue this awesome community we, and the men of women of DF Kit Car, have built.

Very Respectfully

Your sucka, your busta, your no talent ass clown

DF Kit Car Customer
Nice. Now on with the build!
 

comegetjoe

Goblin Guru
Is this not one big contradiction? Its a lot to take in through one long-winded post. So he's been a troll this whole time or is this like an "i screwed up"?
 

Chubbs

Well-Known Member
I often advise my children when things aren't going their way, maybe they need to look in the mirror. I never tell them it's their fault. It usually isn't. But it's worth a look.

If my daughter dated a boy that gave her trouble, maybe the boy is a bad apple. But if she dates 10 boys and they all give her trouble, maybe she is the problem.

If she struggles in one class, maybe she has a bad teacher. But if she struggles in all her classes, maybe she is the problem.

If she has a bad experience with a product, maybe it's a bad product. But if there is a forum full of hundreds of happy customers...well, you get the idea.
 

Chubbs

Well-Known Member
I realize my last post was maybe a bit harsh. I'm going to leave it up because It's still good advice for everyone, but I'll try again.

Do you have specific questions about your build you need help with? If so, there are hundreds on this forum who will offer their time and expertise to help you. I have asked dozens of questions here, and have always gotten an answer. The system works, even if you believe your answers should come directly from DF (and sometimes, they DO answer questions here).

Your goblin needs to be built and on the road. In general, you should NOT be drilling or fabricating or welding. If you're doing those things, you might be doing it wrong. Come on here and ask how we all did it. We can and will help, if you want it. Even if it's just help drilling holes.
 

Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
I would love to see this long list of parts that need to be fabricated or modified to make work. Other than the firewall, I really don’t remember much that had to be modified on mine. Of course I modified a lot that didn’t have to be.
 

Robinjo

Goblin Guru
I would love to see this long list of parts that need to be fabricated or modified to make work. Other than the firewall, I really don’t remember much that had to be modified on mine. Of course I modified a lot that didn’t have to be.
Same…. I only needed to ream holes and trim the front firewall. And drill hiles for the sidepanels.
 

Sluggonaut

Goblin Guru
I don't know what I did wrong, but I didn't have to do anything to get my firewall to mount and not interfere with the steering shaft. I shimmed my EPS to clear the clutch pedal, but I took out the EPS to install longer bolts (due to my shim) and when I reassembled it I forgot the shim and there was no clutch pedal interference.

I am sharing this detail because Sometimes things need to be fiddled with or tried in a few different orientations (seat brackets, IC mounts, etc.) to get them to go on correctly. Aside from drilling out powder coat from some holes and installing the optional side panels, the only drilling or fabricating I had to do were customizations I made on my own. I've never needed a welder for anything, even for my fabricated parts.

I echo the comments above, if you need to drill, cut, or weld anything, search the forum or ask for specific help before you do, as you may not be doing it correctly. With a dropped frame and misaligned parts, you may want to confirm some dimensions to make sure the frame is true and not damaged. Just because it looks fine doesn't mean it's not tweaked.
 

Jareth

Goblin Guru
Same…. I only needed to ream holes and trim the front firewall. And drill hiles for the sidepanels.
Same here that was the ONLY thing I also had to do.

After the build was done, I was leaning over it admiring my work and said to my self that was fun I think I will build another one.


.
 

ncgoblin

Goblin Guru
Not a single mention of the hoses or electrical...I do not remember much drilling but boy do I remember the radiator hoses and electrical....good luck.

I bought my kit at #109 in 2018. DF is now at #400+? What kit would you say is easier and performs as well for the same cost?
 

JBINTX

Goblin Guru
First LLBen. Thank you for your service to our country. Got to get that out of the way.

I finished my Goblin in a little over two weeks. Quite sure there was no welding. I used the original video series. I am not a mechanic.

I cannot even follow your rant in this thread. You purposely acted like an A-hole?? Who does that intentionally? Introspection required here.

I have made many friends through the forum. Many phone calls and video conferences. Most all posts get an answer. Most posts get several answers. But it is just a forum. Making friends is not a requirement.

Maybe your attitude has turned some off and you will never get their help. That is something you need to accept.

Best of luck from here on, sir. I am following Ross’s post suggestion.
 

Ark :D

Goblin Guru
Is this not one big contradiction? Its a lot to take in through one long-winded post. So he's been a troll this whole time or is this like an "i screwed up"?
Neither? Both?

I am convinced now that his entire M.O. is to get as many (new builder) eyes as possible on his rants, to hurt DF as much as he humanly can. I'll no longer be giving him any bumps, since I'm following in JB's direction.
 

SACTX

Well-Known Member
I have a new idea, can we start a gofundme to raise money to get OP a drill and some sand paper, maybe a bench vice so he can build his skills and make a cool car?? also a multimeter and a soldering iron you might need to solder a wire!! EEK!!! I will throw in $40 to start.
Been gone for a while but had to come back for this.
We need a gofundme to buy back his kit and get him outta here. What a f’n joke.
 
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