latest tune from ZZP Bucking bad around 3,500 rpm

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
This is the best that I can see. The problem with figuring out the surging or bucking is the chicken or the egg; which come first? Many items are showing an oscillation in this part of the scan and anyone could be the root cause but all the others are the effect. First you see the TPS (throttle - yellow line) is bouncing some. That could be because you are nervous or suspension, but most likely because it's already starting to buck. Then you see the MAP (purple on top and white on the forth row section) is up and down, again because of the throttle. And the MAF (teal) is bouncing also due to intake air pulses. The spark is all over the place in reaction to everything else.

I know this isn't helping much, it's difficult to diagnose with my limited knowledge and experience. One thing I found odd, is the INJ Duty, during the entire run, even at 90% throttle, it only reached 10%. How big of injectors do you have? Maybe my scaling is different then yours or some weird interpretation of the numbers. Ideally you would want to be around 80% duty at full throttle/load.


24716
 

Zoom Zoom

Goblin Guru
This is the best that I can see. The problem with figuring out the surging or bucking is the chicken or the egg; which come first? Many items are showing an oscillation in this part of the scan and anyone could be the root cause but all the others are the effect. First you see the TPS (throttle - yellow line) is bouncing some. That could be because you are nervous or suspension, but most likely because it's already starting to buck. Then you see the MAP (purple on top and white on the forth row section) is up and down, again because of the throttle. And the MAF (teal) is bouncing also due to intake air pulses. The spark is all over the place in reaction to everything else.

I know this isn't helping much, it's difficult to diagnose with my limited knowledge and experience. One thing I found odd, is the INJ Duty, during the entire run, even at 90% throttle, it only reached 10%. How big of injectors do you have? Maybe my scaling is different then yours or some weird interpretation of the numbers. Ideally you would want to be around 80% duty at full throttle/load.


View attachment 24716
YOUR GOOD THAT IS WHEN IT WAS SURGING THE WORST WAS AT 55 MILES . I HAVE ORIGNAL injectors. Could the TPS be bad the car ran good except when trying to take off it would surge in first and second and then the last tune ZZP sent was when it started this 3,500 surging. I'm not showing any codes at all
 

Zoom Zoom

Goblin Guru
This is the best that I can see. The problem with figuring out the surging or bucking is the chicken or the egg; which come first? Many items are showing an oscillation in this part of the scan and anyone could be the root cause but all the others are the effect. First you see the TPS (throttle - yellow line) is bouncing some. That could be because you are nervous or suspension, but most likely because it's already starting to buck. Then you see the MAP (purple on top and white on the forth row section) is up and down, again because of the throttle. And the MAF (teal) is bouncing also due to intake air pulses. The spark is all over the place in reaction to everything else.

I know this isn't helping much, it's difficult to diagnose with my limited knowledge and experience. One thing I found odd, is the INJ Duty, during the entire run, even at 90% throttle, it only reached 10%. How big of injectors do you have? Maybe my scaling is different then yours or some weird interpretation of the numbers. Ideally you would want to be around 80% duty at full throttle/load.


View attachment 24716
when I was doing my scan run i went to catch 3rd and shifter come apart and that is when it started this BAD SURGING if that makes sense.
DOING A HARD PULL YOU CAN'T TELL IT'S SURGING
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
I doubt the TPS is bad. I'm sure you are unintentionally bouncing the throttle and that is make it worse. Many of us have/had some form of this issue. We had it bad in first and second gear. Good tuning and softening the suspension helps pretty much cure it for us.

Post the most recent tune file from ZZP. I'll bet they jacked with the torque management, which I don't agree with on these cars that are half the weight of stock. I sound like a broken record when I say this. The torque management "softens" or "smooths" out the throttle. Without it, the throttle is extremely sensitive to input.
 

Zoom Zoom

Goblin Guru
I doubt the TPS is bad. I'm sure you are unintentionally bouncing the throttle and that is make it worse. Many of us have/had some form of this issue. We had it bad in first and second gear. Good tuning and softening the suspension helps pretty much cure it for us.

Post the most recent tune file from ZZP. I'll bet they jacked with the torque management, which I don't agree with on these cars that are half the weight of stock. I sound like a broken record when I say this. The torque management "softens" or "smooths" out the throttle. Without it, the throttle is extremely sensitive to input.
No I'm not feathering the throttle at all , ok I will post , HOPEFULLY :)
 
Last edited:

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Many things have changed from the stock file. The Torque Management has been modified extensively. In this file, I basically put most everything in the Torque Management - General tab back to stock.

Give this file a try. No guarantees that is will fix anything, but will at least tell you if the TM settings are affecting the driving.
 

Attachments

OptimizePrime

Goblin Guru
Injector duty cycles on the LNF's are usually tapped out around 30-35% (much different from port injection)

Zoom, ZZP is not dialing in your fuel trims before making adjustments for performance - which is probably why you're having these issues. Honestly your best bet is to get it dyno tuned from a shop who knows HPTuners for 4 cylinders which is unexpectedly difficult (around me anyway).
 

Zoom Zoom

Goblin Guru
Injector duty cycles on the LNF's are usually tapped out around 30-35% (much different from port injection)

Zoom, ZZP is not dialing in your fuel trims before making adjustments for performance - which is probably why you're having these issues. Honestly your best bet is to get it dyno tuned from a shop who knows HPTuners for 4 cylinders which is unexpectedly difficult (around me anyway).
Yes that’s why I had to go this route to start with, Hard to find a good tune shop
 

Zoom Zoom

Goblin Guru
Well here is the latest from ZZP
Got the bucking fixed around 3,500 RPM But goblin still bucks in first and second so I’m about tired of sending them a scan and have them send me a tune that just fixes one thing and then something else is screwed up. So I found a tune shop that I will be going too. And then hopefully I will have a good tune I can share for the Z54 turbo
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Well here is the latest from ZZP
Got the bucking fixed around 3,500 RPM But goblin still bucks in first and second so I’m about tired of sending them a scan and have them send me a tune that just fixes one thing and then something else is screwed up. So I found a tune shop that I will be going too. And then hopefully I will have a good tune I can share for the Z54 turbo
That’s why I’ve never been a big fan of having them “tune”. They can fix some issues but there is nothing like real-time data logging and making changes and more data-logging.

Hopefully you can find a shop that will tune the drivability and not just focus on mashing the throttle. I spent way too much on a tuner that just focused on the highest HP number and did nothing for in between. That was my mistake for not asking more questions before hand. In the end I was forced to learn it myself and am better off.
 

Zoom Zoom

Goblin Guru
Thanks for all the info, I’ll make sure I tell them I want 75% everyday performance and 25% all out performance.
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
No but ’ll send you a copy if you want to look and learn something maybe! He said the timing was jumping all around but he didn’t know why . LEFT is the revision one and then the right is scan after, last scan as of now.
Cool. I’ll take a look at it. Your right, it’s good for learning.

The timing changes based upon load demand (and other things). The hard part is pining down the the cause as opposed to the effect. Is the timing the cause or just an effect (rhetorical question)???
 
Last edited:

Zoom Zoom

Goblin Guru
The vast majority of the changes were to cam timing. Interesting.
According to the tune you sent , Do you think we ( YOU :D ) need to make any changes to it based on what you see . It wants to buck some going through first and second going through the gears. I will try your tune next.
 
Top