[LNF SS/TC] - Stock Internal & BW S252 Turbo

Mayor West

Goblin Guru
This is going to be my long-term documented tuning adventure for my 09 SS/TC with a Borg Warner S252 turbo. At least two others have gone the S257 route but on LSJ-T's, so I wanted to get a conversation going on the LNF with this series turbos.

General Specs that could affect tuning:
  • 2009 LNF with 129k miles
  • Stock Internals
  • Borg Warner S252 Turbo
  • ZZP Manifold
  • Open-Dump Go Fast Bits Wastegate
  • Boost Control via OEM solenoid
  • 2.5" Air to Air Intercooler & Piping
    • Replacing my longest 2.5" pipe with a 3" pipe to help with MAF hz readings
  • GM Stage 1 MAP (manifold only, no cold side)
  • Blow-Through MAF after BOV
    • Replacing my longest 2.5" pipe with a 3" pipe to help with MAF hz readings
  • Atmospheric BOV
  • AEM 30-4900 Failsafe Wideband
  • 1x Narrowband O2
    • Not 100% sure which or the original two I have hooked up...
  • 1x Wideband O2
  • No Vacuum Tank
  • No Oil Canister
I have HPTuners (non-pro) and a GM Tech2 clone. I know I need pro to do wideband tuning but I'm probably going to leave the meat of that to the professionals if I can help it.

My arbitrary HP goal is the ~375-400 RWHP range. but my feelings won't be hurt if I don't make that. I want to get it running smoothly myself (attempt to at least) and then take it to be professionally dyno tuned by a local shop. I want to get it close to running "good enough" on my own to get more familiar with the tools and to make it less of a headache for my professional person to troubleshoot any issues I run in to.

Attached is my stock tune, it currently idles and doesn't appear to have a hard time doing so.

Initial To-Do List:
  • Install GM Stage 1 MAP & alter settings in HP Tuners
  • Get comfortable with HP Tuners and understanding the MAF hertz and how going from pull to blow-through is affected.
I am watching Goat Rope Garage videos to get familiar but he has a billion of them and they're overwhelming.

I do not have my goblin drivable yet, but I am working on tuning so I wanted to start documenting it for others to enjoy the journey.
 

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Ross

Goblin Guru
Why do you need HP Tuners Pro version to do wideband O2 tuning? I tune my LSJ with my wideband, and the basic HP Tuners version. I just plug my AEM wideband into the USB port of my laptop when I am tuning.
 

Mayor West

Goblin Guru
I guess I was under the impression it wouldn't read it alongside but if that's not the case then that's great news.
 

jamesm

Goblin Guru
I thought the main "Pro" feature was the ability to add data that didn't come from the ECM (i.e. analog signals)
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Why do you need HP Tuners Pro version to do wideband O2 tuning? I tune my LSJ with my wideband, and the basic HP Tuners version. I just plug my AEM wideband into the USB port of my laptop when I am tuning.
I second that. Save the money. PRO primarily gives you analog inputs and the future possibility of remote data logging (if it every come out). Ross and I have both done our tuning with AEM wideband gauges. But ask before purchasing one, some won't work well for you (ones with analog out only).
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
I thought the main "Pro" feature was the ability to add data that didn't come from the ECM (i.e. analog signals)
That is true and some gauges only output analog, but others such as the 30-0300 output a serial and/or CANBus that can be logged along with the rest of the PIDs.

If you use a gauge such as the FailSafe line 30-4900, they only output analog and you would need the PRO version to use that information.
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Yeah, my gauge (Failsafe) doesn't do that.
Your options are to purchase PRO or a different gauge that does and have two. If you do end up with two, try to use the O2 sensor that came with that gauge. It may cause calibration issues if you mix them up unless you free air recalibrate them each time.
 

Rauq

Goblin Guru
If you have an analog output from the gauge, why not wire it into the ECU as the AC pressure sensor or some other input that's not being used anymore?
 

OptimizePrime

Goblin Guru
When I get back from the TOTD I'll write you up a decent baseline step by step to get you to a point where you could bring it somewhere (hopefully, your setup is different from mine).

You have two initial headaches to overcome - the intercooler sizing and maf relocate. The intercooler sizing is going to impact your MAF Correction and your relocation is going to impact your MAF Base tables for the most part. Your MAF Correction table is like a global change (not dependent on rpm, boost, coolant temps etc.) as it's on a single axis (Hz) and your MAF Base tables are across RPM and load. This matters as changes to MAF Correction factor in during cold-starts, boost, highway etc. So if your scan and MAF Correction adjustments are all based on a warm vehicle in the summer time it's likely going to run like crap for cold starts in the winter. You kinda mitigate this with starting with your MAF Base tables.

If I were you, I'd start with the MAF Base table and dial that in as close as possible before adjusting your MAF Correction based on the Hz levels that are way out of spec. It's likely after the initial hurdle you'll find yourself doing a back and forth between the MAF Base and MAF Correction tables to get a smooth cold start, idle, hot start, and driveability before moving to timing and other.

First step is to setup your VCM Scanner to make it easy to copy and paste into VCM Editor - I can attach my layout in a bit. You'll then unplug your EVAP sensor and change your MAF Base table all to 1. Wait until your car is fully warmed up before starting your scan and then go for a drive (ideally idle, around town, highway). I didn't have intercooler changes or go blow-through but to give you an idea, I had to pull 20% fuel in certain RPMs - which is pretty drastic. So if she drives like sh*t at first don't get discouraged, and make baby steps.

I am by no means a legitimate tuner, just maybe giving you a path to research and try


edit: The LNF O2 sensor is a wideband sensor, so you can start with that and add the other wideband reading later - don't let that hold you up.
 
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Mayor West

Goblin Guru
FWIW I'm buying a longer 3" pipe to adapt the longest portion of my current 2.5" intercooling piping to put in a 3" MAF sensor pipe. I've read that having at least 15" or so of 3" pipe would suffice in getting correct readings.
 

Rauq

Goblin Guru
Because I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm not familiar with the MPVI2 but I know on the original MPVI the only difference between standard and pro are the few analog IOs on the hardware interface. I have the pro so I can wire the wideband 5v output directly into the MPVI but I tuned a buddy's FI C5 with his standard interface so we wired a switch to toggle between the AC pressure sensor's actual output and the wideband's 5v analog output. When tuning we'd flip the switch and configure the AC pressure sensor in HP Tuners to read as the wideband.

Theoretically you can just figure out which pin on the ECM is originally for the input for AC pressure or any other unused analog 5v sensor and wire the wideband's analog output into that, no Pro interface needed.
 

Mayor West

Goblin Guru
Those of you who have tuned yourselves and are blow-through MAF (not sure how many this will apply to)

Do you have any experience or thoughts for the first steps in this conversion?

In reading online, I'm being told to take a decent amount from the MAF base tables. So far I'm starting with 7% and going from there. I did not alter the hertz table, just the base. I'm also going to be installing my 3" MAF tube to replace my 2.5" tube, I'll be getting about 15" or so of 3" tube to help even that section out.
 

OptimizePrime

Goblin Guru
I wouldn't just pull 7% across the board or guess which cells to pull 7%, let the scan dictate where and how much to pull.
 

Mayor West

Goblin Guru
So with the keen eye of @OptimizePrime and @KSLunsfo we worked on the gob this past Saturday. I was able to locate a pretty substantial boost leak (line to the front brake booster came out, so I ditched my 3D printed adapter and just gave her the business and really synched it down.

The idle appears to be spot on perfect sounding to the ear, although I haven't taken a scan of it yet.

I hope to get an idle and neighborhood scan this week or weekend.
 

Mayor West

Goblin Guru
I've made some progress finalizing the intake piping on my goblin. Per peoples advice, I increased the pipe diameter of my MAF sensor area from 2.5" to 3" for about 18 inches or so. I got a MAP bracket from Adam and welded it onto the 3" pipe as well as a new MAF bracket, so everything is sealed and in place in my new 3" pipe.
  • The donor was stock with a draw-through ~3" K&N Typhoon intake
    • ECM was stock, car ran fine I'm assuming (I never drove it)
  • The goblin runs/idles fine with the 2.5" pipe in blow-through configuration
    • Once in 'higher' boost the MAF throws an out of range code occasionally
  • The car does not idle or run with the 3" pipe on with the MAF plugged in in a blow-through configuration
    • It idles if the MAF is unplugged, as expected
I've done some research on MAF scaling on YouTube but I don't fully understand how to manipulate it to get it idling so I can start scanning to dial the MAF back in for the 3" blow through.

Anyone have some thoughts on what direction I can go to get a base MAF scale to idle and begin scanning?

Add/Subtract? What %? Trial and error until I get a decent idle and then go from there?

Thanks for any thoughts!
 

Rauq

Goblin Guru
Theoretically you're going from about 5 sq.in with the 2.5" diameter pipe to about 7 sq.in with the 3" pipe, an increase of about 44%, so multiply by 1.44? I don't have HP Tuners installed on the computer I'm using right now so I can't recall exactly, but the MAF table is MAF Frequency (HZ) by Airmass (g/s), right?
 

Mayor West

Goblin Guru
I read somewhere while researching that it's not directly related to % increase in terms of the multiply function within HPTuners... so a X% increase won't necessarily correspond to the scaling... so I wanted others input... I suppose I could try a 1.44x multiply function and see if it runs, then go from there?

I don't want to screw it up by making arbitrary adjustments.
 
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