LSJ SC HP Tuners Log Data - 27PSI?! 162F IAT

GoblinGuyZ

Well-Known Member
So did a quick log today for the first time with HP Tuners to send to ZZP to start a remote tune, and I'm logging 187kpa peak / 27psi under load in 3rd. Ammmmm, am I correct in thinking this is crazy high boost for a stock LSJ with a ZZP stage 2 upgrade and 3.0 pulley and bolt ons as the only real upgrade? I have to drive again and log with my dash with it's own sensor to verify I'm actually getting that high and the sensor isnt fried but it seems fine otherwise. However with the fan option on for the stock DF SC cooler and a new ZZP upgraded electric water pump and dual pass (cleaned the lamanova cores same time) and full water/redline water wetter coolant mix I'm peaking at 160F intake temps which suggest it is getting quite a bit of heat through it. I verified the pump is working and actually their stage map turns it on with engine.

Any thoughts? What could be causing such high boost? Is it even really possible on the stock SC? I'm thinking I should be well below 20. Def sounds like I need a better cooling solution as well. Intake 1 temps at the MAF are below 98 so a big variation between there and engine. Of course the inefficiency of the SC at those boost levels would account for the high IAT as well.

Attached log for anyone interested enough in having a look also.
 

Attachments

jirwin

Goblin Guru
On my phone so I can't open the log... But just a thought. Atomshperic is ~14psi... So if 27psi could really mean 13psi of boost which seems more accurate
 

GoblinGuyZ

Well-Known Member
On my phone so I can't open the log... But just a thought. Atomshperic is ~14psi... So if 27psi could really mean 13psi of boost which seems more accurate
Was thinking that as well but normally most logs account for that and start 0 at 14.7 psi but it's a valid theory and the only one that makes sense to me also.
 

GoblinGuyZ

Well-Known Member
I just setup my AEM dash with its own separate Map sensor tapped into the ZZP supercharger spacer to log boost so will got for a quick drive tomorrow and see what that is saying. However that doesn't account for my high IATs. Anyone with a SC ever log their IAT and get anything close?
 

Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
yes, need to subtract barometric pressure. Set up a math function to see actual boost. HPT has a calc already set up if your pids match.
 

GoblinGuyZ

Well-Known Member
yes, need to subtract barometric pressure. Set up a math function to see actual boost. HPT has a calc already set up if your pids match.
Great thanks, making alot more sense now. Still concerned about my IATs tho, they seem high. I know the stock DF cooler setup isnt ideal but I figured with an upgraded pump and dual pass and a good additive I wouldnt be getting there after less than 10 minutes with a few pulls in between, especially with the now 12 or so psi I'm actually making.
 

Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
Yes I think you have a problem on your cooling. I would start by looking at temp on a cold start. The temps for ambient, iat and iat2 should be pretty close.

I would guess that you have an air pocket trapped somewhere limiting coolant flow. You also may want to confirm the wiring on the coolant pump to make sure its' not spinning backward. Most pumps won't move water if spinning backward. You iat temps never drop back down very much even out of boost. I guess your ambient temps are in the 80's?

There is a tuning section on here that has a few logs that you can check to see if they where tacking iat's. They should be.
 

GoblinGuyZ

Well-Known Member
Yes I think you have a problem on your cooling. I would start by looking at temp on a cold start. The temps for ambient, iat and iat2 should be pretty close.

I would guess that you have an air pocket trapped somewhere limiting coolant flow. You also may want to confirm the wiring on the coolant pump to make sure its' not spinning backward. Most pumps won't move water if spinning backward. You iat temps never drop back down very much even out of boost. I guess your ambient temps are in the 80's?

There is a tuning section on here that has a few logs that you can check to see if they where tacking iat's. They should be.
Yes ambient is low 80s. Cold start is normal but will get to low 100s if left idling even before I move the car. I’ll check on the wiring maybe you’re right I had heard some of these cars came with the wiring backwards. Maybe this was one. I do see the water swirling when I pop the cap to the inlet
 

Tinkles

Well-Known Member
From my experience with supercharged Ecotecs those IATs are crappy, but normal. My TVS at 17psi still gets up to ~150* on a summer day. Also the H/E in the intake manifold is not the greatest. The H/E system isn't that effective at cooling the air during a pull and is more suited to recovering in between pulls. Water/meth injection works best for cooling during the pull. Nitrous would work too.
 

GoblinGuyZ

Well-Known Member
From my experience with supercharged Ecotecs those IATs are crappy, but normal. My TVS at 17psi still gets up to ~150* on a summer day. Also the H/E in the intake manifold is not the greatest. The H/E system isn't that effective at cooling the air during a pull and is more suited to recovering in between pulls. Water/meth injection works best for cooling during the pull. Nitrous would work too.
thanks. Still at 12 psi in under 10 minutes I think over 160 indicates an issue. I checked the pump and it’s wired correctly however I noticed the inlet looks a little kinked and slightly collapsed and almost certainly hampering flow somewhat so I’m going to reroute a bit and change the hose tomorrow and then see what happens. I would consider a water meth kit as a possibility later as well. Had one on my evo and it worked quite well.
 

Chubbs

Well-Known Member
thanks. Still at 12 psi in under 10 minutes I think over 160 indicates an issue.
Depends on how hard you're beating on it in those 10 minutes. There might be a problem, but not necessarily.

I routinely was seeing 150+ on my setup, even while highway cruising, and I couldn't find anything wrong. No bubbles, new pump and good flow, dual pass. I then added an aux heat exchanger I mounted behind the passenger seat/headrest. It helped a little. Running on track, I see 140+ now, 150 on a hot day.

I personally believe the front heat exchanger collects a lot of radiator heat. My aux heat exchanger collects a lot of engine heat in the back. It's hard to find cool clean air in these cars.
 

GoblinGuyZ

Well-Known Member
Depends on how hard you're beating on it in those 10 minutes. There might be a problem, but not necessarily.

I routinely was seeing 150+ on my setup, even while highway cruising, and I couldn't find anything wrong. No bubbles, new pump and good flow, dual pass. I then added an aux heat exchanger I mounted behind the passenger seat/headrest. It helped a little. Running on track, I see 140+ now, 150 on a hot day.

I personally believe the front heat exchanger collects a lot of radiator heat. My aux heat exchanger collects a lot of engine heat in the back. It's hard to find cool clean air in these cars.
yeah not many practical options. I’ll change the hoses and see how much that helps. Thanks
 

GoblinGuyZ

Well-Known Member
38543


changed the hose that was collapsing and then from cold with the fan for the cooler on left it idling for about 25 minutes and temps slowly climbed to about 140. Never even revved it. Again not sure what is considered normal but seems high considering the fan was on the whole time and not even driving. I’m lost as to what could be the issue. I don’t think I have any air in the system or at least not more than a few small bubbles here and there. The temp of the coolant remained pretty cool only towards the end could I detect any real warmth after putting my finger into it inside the fill neck but it’s flowing fairly well and pump isn’t overly loud and is wired correctly. The cooler at the front also stayed cool to the touch and both the in and out rubbers connecting to it. Next step i guess is to take it for an actual drive where temps really matter and see. Makes me wonder if I have something hooked up wrong but went through all the diagrams etc I can find before and it seems to make sense. Will post up a video.
 

Ross

Goblin Guru
Sounds like high intake temps is normal when an LSJ is idling.

I wonder if your Intake Air Temp from your TMAP (Temperature & Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor is working correctly.
38544


If you put your hand (or lazer temp gauge) on the intake, near the sensor, does the aluminum read 140F ?
38545
 
Last edited:

GoblinGuyZ

Well-Known Member
I have a separate aem IAT sensor coming next week I can use to validate but I have no reason to suspect the temps are inaccurate based on how the readings are.
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
A couple of things to mention here. IAT2 temps aren't like coolant temps that we are all so used to. The IAT2 sensor is mounted inside the high up in the intake area, just outside of the path of the incoming air. This sensor tends to see a lot of heat soak from the engine. The only way to cool this sensor (and to see lower IATs) is to cool it with cool intake air. First, in your log, your intake air temps are 97 degrees, that's not going to cool much. Second, if you are at idle, there is the smallest amount of air possible going through the intake, therefor the smallest amount of IAT2 cooling. It's probably not going to see much cooling at all with the little amount of air coming in.

This is proven in your data log:

At this point in time, mostly-open throttle, you are getting the most air in and the IAT2 temps are fairly low at 127 degrees.

38546



Now just as soon as you chop the throttle, blocking the intake air, and the temps jump up from the lack of intake air, all the way to 149 degrees. No air, no cooling.

38547


The intercooler and HE are designed to cool the compressed air coming in, especially under boost. They won't do much for idle air. Also it cannot cool much closer than 20 degrees to ambient air temps. Again, it has to have air to cool, so you will only seen the cooling effect when the throttle is open. We watch ours using the Aeroforce Interceptor gauge and we can see the temps drop whenever opening the throttle and rising after closing the throttle. This is very normal. Just the opposite of conventional thinking about engine temps and load.

If you are still suspect of the effectiveness of your cooling system, log temps of the water going in and temps of the water coming out of the intercooler (not the HE). The absolute best you could get is the temp going in is within a few degrees of ambient and the water coming out is much higher.

Once seen a review of a product that someone boasted that they were getting IAT temps far below ambient (using the same type of system)! What a joke!
 

GoblinGuyZ

Well-Known Member
A couple of things to mention here. IAT2 temps aren't like coolant temps that we are all so used to. The IAT2 sensor is mounted inside the high up in the intake area, just outside of the path of the incoming air. This sensor tends to see a lot of heat soak from the engine. The only way to cool this sensor (and to see lower IATs) is to cool it with cool intake air. First, in your log, your intake air temps are 97 degrees, that's not going to cool much. Second, if you are at idle, there is the smallest amount of air possible going through the intake, therefor the smallest amount of IAT2 cooling. It's probably not going to see much cooling at all with the little amount of air coming in.

This is proven in your data log:

At this point in time, mostly-open throttle, you are getting the most air in and the IAT2 temps are fairly low at 127 degrees.

View attachment 38546


Now just as soon as you chop the throttle, blocking the intake air, and the temps jump up from the lack of intake air, all the way to 149 degrees. No air, no cooling.

View attachment 38547

The intercooler and HE are designed to cool the compressed air coming in, especially under boost. They won't do much for idle air. Also it cannot cool much closer than 20 degrees to ambient air temps. Again, it has to have air to cool, so you will only seen the cooling effect when the throttle is open. We watch ours using the Aeroforce Interceptor gauge and we can see the temps drop whenever opening the throttle and rising after closing the throttle. This is very normal. Just the opposite of conventional thinking about engine temps and load.

If you are still suspect of the effectiveness of your cooling system, log temps of the water going in and temps of the water coming out of the intercooler (not the HE). The absolute best you could get is the temp going in is within a few degrees of ambient and the water coming out is much higher.

Once seen a review of a product that someone boasted that they were getting IAT temps far below ambient (using the same type of system)! What a joke!
Thanks all makes sense. I’ll go for a ride later and put that theory to the test also, hopefully that’s all there is to it.
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
You may not see drastic changes, but you should notice the more long durations of more open throttle, temps will generally come down (except under extreme boost) and chopping the throttle will cause them to creep back up.

Hopefully your ambient air temps are better than 97 degrees today.

We see 20-25 above ambient all the time and that is very normal.
 

GoblinGuyZ

Well-Known Member
You may not see drastic changes, but you should notice the more long durations of more open throttle, temps will generally come down (except under extreme boost) and chopping the throttle will cause them to creep back up.

Hopefully your ambient air temps are better than 97 degrees today.

We see 20-25 above ambient all the time and that is very normal.
I think the ambient was so high because I wasn’t moving and the engine cover was on because actual outside temp is in the mid 80s. Yes over 25 or even 30 I would be ok with that would still put me well below 130 tho and it got to 140 and was still creeping up. But as said will go for a drive and see.
 
Top