Need help with turbo.

[viperbmw69]

Group I had some help identifying an issue. I have an aftermarket turbo on a L61 2.2 this engine is a fresh build with Forged Rods and Pistons. New Bearings. When I run the car the engine is very smooth and running fine. Once I get the RPM up to start building boost I get a noticeable knocking and all boost lost. Runs like crap and the knocking stays for a bit then stops and the engine runs smoothly again. I took the Turbo intake tube off the intake to check and the Engine is running perfectly fine even at high rpm. I did out of caution pull the plugs and Valve cover and the Engine is looking fine. I also took the intake and turbo off

Couple findings.
1. There is oil in the intake - Honestly this could have been there for a while I did not clean it.
2. This is an external Wastegate. Turbo and Wastegate are Ebay specials!!
3. The Turbo has NO play and spins smooth. I dont see anything obvious
4. I do think the oil Outlet is on the smaller side this is a 10AN fitting but the ID of the Adapters is 5/16 seems small.
5. I found a Oil restrictor underneath the Turbo Oil Inlet. The inlet flange itself has a very small hole and I believe this is an oil restriction hole in the flange so not sure why there is also another one under it. PICS attached

My Suspects
1. maybe the wastegate is not working properly and building to much boost then it flys open and dumps everything.... My boost gauge showing -21 boost I am not sure why it is showing negative reading.
I am thinking maybe the wastegate because the knocking sound goes away after a bit when the engine is idling. I did not get a chance to look at the wastegate pipe to see if it was exhausting during the knock.

2. Maybe a hidden turbo issue? The oil in the intake to me means the oil is not draining from the outlet fast enough.

Options I can think of
1. remove the manual boost controller and connect the Turbo to the wastegate direct and put a small PSI spring in the wastegate.

2. Replace the turbo and wastegate.

 

[Ross]

Has your engine been tuned after the turbo was added? (I am thinking not, as the problems occur when boost starts)
A lot of detailed information is available inside of HP Tuners.

 

[comegetjoe]

I don't think the turbo oiling and the knocking sound are related.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

The L61 engine is either 9.5:1 or 10:1 compression ratio, it will not take much boost to get to the maximum cylinder pressure this engine can handle. Creating boost, if the ECU is not programmed correctly as Ross indicated, will likely cause a pre-ignition detonation situation that will be detected by the knock sensors and the ECU will pull timing out of the engine to compensate. If the waste gate has been set up to create lots of boost at low RPM, it will not dump much of it - if any - until the engine returns to idle, which may be causing the knocking sound to persist. Having oil in the intake does not help this situation and will exacerbate the detonation. This has been confirmed by pulling the charge pipe and running the engine as a NA, where it is running ok. Sounds like the ECU needs to be programmed for boost.

 

[Gtstorey]

If this isn't tuned, stop driving it in boost until it's tuned and you get a functioning boost and AFR gauge. If this is "tuned", stop driving it until you get a functioning boost and AFR gauge. At this point you have a unknown turbo/wastegate that might be producing who knows how much boost at unknown AFR. That is a good way to blow even a forged motor.

Was the turbo used? Is it a K04? Even a K04 is able to produce enough boost while also generating heat to damage am improperly tuned motor. It sounds to me like you are getting a lean misfire. Hopefully it's going lean enough to not make any real power and didn't damage anything.

 

[viperbmw69]

Tuned is a good question. This turbo was on the donor when I bought the car. The ecu was supposedly tuned by the shop that installed it in the cobalt. Long story short is that the motor right after turbo charged blew a piston ring and I bought it that way. Then I stripped the cobalt and rebuilt the engine with forged parts had the block machined and crank polished. So I did assume the ecu was tuned.

how can I verify it’s tunned? And how can I go about getting a base tune remotely?

also does this mean my boat gauge is bad? Since it’s showing negative results? Still confused

 

[viperbmw69]

Has your engine been tuned after the turbo was added? (I am thinking not, as the problems occur when boost starts)
A lot of detailed information is available inside of HP Tuners.

Can you elaborate on “HP tuner” what is that.

 

[Gtstorey]

Can you elaborate on “HP tuner” what is that.

Assuming this isn't a sarcastic response.
HP Tuners – Home
Allows you to reprogram the ECM to adjust fueling and timing and other engine parameters to run correctly with your new set up.

Looking at some of your earlier posts, this is a swap for a 2006 SS/SC ?

 

[viperbmw69]

Assuming this isn't a sarcastic response.
HP Tuners – Home
Allows you to reprogram the ECM to adjust fueling and timing and other engine parameters to run correctly with your new set up.

Looking at some of your earlier posts, this is a swap for a 2006 SS/SC ?

This is for sure not sarcastic this is my first time with custom forced induction. Thank you for your help. This is the second goblin I have built. This is from a 2.2 L61. Base car

 

[viperbmw69]

Assuming this isn't a sarcastic response.
HP Tuners – Home
Allows you to reprogram the ECM to adjust fueling and timing and other engine parameters to run correctly with your new set up.

Looking at some of your earlier posts, this is a swap for a 2006 SS/SC ?

I’m a noob on ecu tuning so I need to look for something specific in hp tuners?

 

[viperbmw69]

Assuming this isn't a sarcastic response.
HP Tuners – Home
Allows you to reprogram the ECM to adjust fueling and timing and other engine parameters to run correctly with your new set up.

Looking at some of your earlier posts, this is a swap for a 2006 SS/SC ?

Do I need to buy a device? I am not sure I should tune it myself .

 

[Gtstorey]

Tuned is a good question. This turbo was on the donor when I bought the car. The ecu was supposedly tuned by the shop that installed it in the cobalt. Long story short is that the motor right after turbo charged blew a piston ring and I bought it that way. Then I stripped the cobalt and rebuilt the engine with forged parts had the block machined and crank polished. So I did assume the ecu was tuned.

how can I verify it’s tunned? And how can I go about getting a base tune remotely?

also does this mean my boat gauge is bad? Since it’s showing negative results? Still confused

Decent chance the motor broke because it wasn't tuned or was improperly tuned. Need to get a functioning Boost gauge and AFR gauge to have a chance to see if the motor is anywhere close to tuned correctly. You really need to add HP Tuners to that list to really log all of the engine parameters to see how it's running.

What year is this donor? The very earlier base models have an ECM that can't be tuned. 2005 & 2006 I think is the one, but I'm not sure.

You might want to reach out to ZZPerformance about remote tuning, but they may not want to get involved with so many unknowns with your setup.

 

[viperbmw69]

Decent chance the motor broke because it wasn't tuned or was improperly tuned. Need to get a functioning Boost gauge and AFR gauge to have a chance to see if the motor is anywhere close to tuned correctly. You really need to add HP Tuners to that list to really log all of the engine parameters to see how it's running.

What year is this donor? The very earlier base models have an ECM that can't be tuned. 2005 & 2006 I think is the one, but I'm not sure.

You might want to reach out to ZZPerformance about remote tuning, but they may not want to get involved with so many unknowns with your setup.

This is from a 2008.

 

[viperbmw69]

Decent chance the motor broke because it wasn't tuned or was improperly tuned. Need to get a functioning Boost gauge and AFR gauge to have a chance to see if the motor is anywhere close to tuned correctly. You really need to add HP Tuners to that list to really log all of the engine parameters to see how it's running.

What year is this donor? The very earlier base models have an ECM that can't be tuned. 2005 & 2006 I think is the one, but I'm not sure.

You might want to reach out to ZZPerformance about remote tuning, but they may not want to get involved with so many unknowns with your setup.

I should also mention the o2 sensor on my exhaust is missing as I need to weld in a spot for it

 

[Gtstorey]

At least the 2008 2.2 ECM can be tuned. You might be able to find a local speed shop that can tune that, but be careful to find a good one.

 

[Gtstorey]

I should also mention the o2 sensor on my exhaust is missing as I need to weld in a spot for it

I think you need to stop and find some local professional help. Way to much going on here that is wrong that can't be diagnosed/fixed on a forum. You can't just throw Forced Induction on a vehicle and drive it. All of the details matter. Depending on how much boost is being made, you might have to change injectors.

Either find a good shop that can work on this or be prepared for lot of reading/research to fix it yourself. We can help some, but It's hard to get you started from scratch. Maybe some of the others on here that have made the swap can help more.

 

[viperbmw69]

I think you need to stop and find some local professional help. Way to much going on here that is wrong that can't be diagnosed/fixed on a forum. You can't just throw Forced Induction on a vehicle and drive it. All of the details matter. Depending on how much boost is being made, you might have to change injectors.

Either find a good shop that can work on this or be prepared for lot of reading/research to fix it yourself. We can help some, but It's hard to get you started from scratch. Maybe some of the others on here that have made the swap can help more.

Unfortunately there are not many local shops around me. I honestly am right now looking to get the turbo set working with very small boost and just drive the car to break in the new engine. Then are a while maybe turn up the boost a bit. Right now I need to get the car on the road to get the motor broke in. Is there a safe way to minimize turbo set? What I mean is either remove the intake pipe and drive in NA and let the turbo vent to air.? Or maybe just put a very tiny spring in the Wastegate and connect the Turbo vacuum line to the wastegate directly. Also I guess I need to go ahead and install the o2 sensor.

Basically I would like to get the car on the road even in NA would be fine for now since it needs time to break in currently. I can spend that time figuring out the turbo setup. I honestly do not mind putting the money in the Kit to maybe replace the turbo and wastegate if need be with ZZP parts. the exhaust manifold is ZZP already.

 

[viperbmw69]

Also I need to verify EVERTHING else on the car outside of turbos and engine. Such as Brakes Steering Shifting all working

 

[Gtstorey]

It's really hard to say what will be safe to run, but definitely NA should be safer than boosted. I would still want HP Tuners to log data or at least the AFR gauge to try and have some idea what the fueling is doing. But you also need to think about what happens with the MAF sensor with the turbo out of the loop and probably lot of other details.

If this was me, I would probably go back and set the car up completely as NA by pulling the turbo, putting an NA intake and exhaust in place and flashing ECM back to stock. Then learn to tune the NA version with HP Tuners. Once you are comfortable tuning NA, then re-install the turbo. Or find someone that can remotely tune the turbo setup. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of trying to make this run without a better idea of what is going on with the baseline of fueling and spark.

 

[viperbmw69]

It's really hard to say what will be safe to run, but definitely NA should be safer than boosted. I would still want HP Tuners to log data or at least the AFR gauge to try and have some idea what the fueling is doing. But you also need to think about what happens with the MAF sensor with the turbo out of the loop and probably lot of other details.

If this was me, I would probably go back and set the car up completely as NA by pulling the turbo, putting an NA intake and exhaust in place and flashing ECM back to stock. Then learn to tune the NA version with HP Tuners. Once you are comfortable tuning NA, then re-install the turbo. Or find someone that can remotely tune the turbo setup. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of trying to make this run without a better idea of what is going on with the baseline of fueling and spark.

Problem with that is I do not have the stock exhuast or manifold. Said it came with this turbo setup