Nukers City Goblin - 2009 SS/TC number 2 build

TheNuker

Goblin Guru
Well I spent the evening taking apart the whole brand new engine wiring harness. I can't find a single pinch, rip, tear, nick, gouge, break, melt, or any damaged spot at all. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I'm going to order another new engine harness along with a new engine fuse box and go from there. This is going to be the death of me. No joke.

Nuker-
 

r3drckt

Goblin Guru
Well I spent the evening taking apart the whole brand new engine wiring harness. I can't find a single pinch, rip, tear, nick, gouge, break, melt, or any damaged spot at all. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I'm going to order another new engine harness along with a new engine fuse box and go from there. This is going to be the death of me. No joke.

Nuker-
Why not run a new wire from end to end for the injector circuit instead? Would save you the hassle of having to rework an entirely new harness. If the problem persists then buy the new fuse box. If the problem persists then buy the new harness and rework it.
 

TheNuker

Goblin Guru
Why not run a new wire from end to end for the injector circuit instead? Would save you the hassle of having to rework an entirely new harness. If the problem persists then buy the new fuse box. If the problem persists then buy the new harness and rework it.

Well the problem is right now its not having the "issue" aka the short. It happened on my last drive killed the #1 coilpack towed it home and it was fine no +10volts~ on the purple #1 coilpack wire. Put a new coilpack in today and it fired right up. So There has to be a short somewhere in the fuse box or wiring harness I would think?

I was thinking maybe its another component like the fuel injectors or another coilpack, But the fuel injectors still work for sure even after the coilpack circuit is blown.

@ctuinstra Do you see anything I'm missing in the wiring diagram that could be pointing to another component in the fusebox that could cause this issue? I have ruled out the ECU as the new one was also showing +10~ volts on the purple coilpack wire. That magically went away when I plugged the original ECU back in. I was thinking the only wires I was really messing with would be the ones in and around the fuse box while swapping the ECU...

Nuker-
 

SmsDetroit

Goblin Guru
Maybe the injector is overloading and back feeding the coil. It make be able to take the voltage and the coil can not. I’m not sure how hard it is to swap injectors but if you move the #1 injector and the problem moves then boom there it iz
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Well the problem is right now its not having the "issue" aka the short. It happened on my last drive killed the #1 coilpack towed it home and it was fine no +10volts~ on the purple #1 coilpack wire. Put a new coilpack in today and it fired right up. So There has to be a short somewhere in the fuse box or wiring harness I would think?

I was thinking maybe its another component like the fuel injectors or another coilpack, But the fuel injectors still work for sure even after the coilpack circuit is blown.

@ctuinstra Do you see anything I'm missing in the wiring diagram that could be pointing to another component in the fusebox that could cause this issue? I have ruled out the ECU as the new one was also showing +10~ volts on the purple coilpack wire. That magically went away when I plugged the original ECU back in. I was thinking the only wires I was really messing with would be the ones in and around the fuse box while swapping the ECU...

Nuker-
When I get a chance to get in front of the computer, I’ll see what else we can do. Since you are in the neighborhood (two hours), I could stop by some time and help.
 

TheNuker

Goblin Guru
Maybe the injector is overloading and back feeding the coil. It make be able to take the voltage and the coil can not. I’m not sure how hard it is to swap injectors but if you move the #1 injector and the problem moves then boom there it iz
Well the problem is the injectors are all attached on the LNF since its direct injection. I really don't want to buy another new opal fuel injector setup the yare expensive haha.

Thanks guys,
Nuker-
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
I don't understand the interest in the injectors. They are no way shape or form coupled, directly or indirectly, with the ignition coils. Don't let the "INJ" label on the fuse box fool you. Unless the wiring diagram for the 2009 SS/TC I have is completely wrong. The injectors are directly driven by the ECM and do not have direct 12V power coming from the fuse box or the coils.

The simple facts are:
  1. The "INJ" 10A fuse supplies 12V to all four coils as soon as the ignition is turned on via the PWR/TRN relay.
  2. After a short time of the cylinder #1 being fired (engine started), the coil internally shorts.
    1. Due to this internal short in the coil, excessive current causes "INJ" 10A fuse to blow.
  3. Replacing the fuse and the #1 coil fixes the issue for a short time and then repeats.
  4. Disconnecting the purple wire stops the blowing of fuses.
    1. This is because coil #1 is no longer being charged/discharged, or simply not used; obvious reason it would no longer cause issues.
I'm not clear on if you have changed or just swapped or what the spark plugs. If a plug, or wire, is directly shorted to ground, or the gap is excessive, this can put a huge strain on the coil and cause it to fail prematurely.

What do all of the plugs look like when comparing them? What brand and part number are they?

Also, using a bad coil, measure with an ohmmeter and report the following:
  1. PNK/BLK - BLK
  2. PNK/BLK - Center conductor of the plug socket (inside the rubber boot)
  3. BLK - PPL
  4. BLK - BRN
It would help to have the same measurements from a known good coil also. It's hard to know for sure what is inside the coil pack, but the image below helps.


23922
 

TheNuker

Goblin Guru
I don't understand the interest in the injectors. They are no way shape or form coupled, directly or indirectly, with the ignition coils. Don't let the "INJ" label on the fuse box fool you. Unless the wiring diagram for the 2009 SS/TC I have is completely wrong. The injectors are directly driven by the ECM and do not have direct 12V power coming from the fuse box or the coils.

The simple facts are:
  1. The "INJ" 10A fuse supplies 12V to all four coils as soon as the ignition is turned on via the PWR/TRN relay.
  2. After a short time of the cylinder #1 being fired (engine started), the coil internally shorts.
    1. Due to this internal short in the coil, excessive current causes "INJ" 10A fuse to blow.
  3. Replacing the fuse and the #1 coil fixes the issue for a short time and then repeats.
  4. Disconnecting the purple wire stops the blowing of fuses.
    1. This is because coil #1 is no longer being charged/discharged, or simply not used; obvious reason it would no longer cause issues.
I'm not clear on if you have changed or just swapped or what the spark plugs. If a plug, or wire, is directly shorted to ground, or the gap is excessive, this can put a huge strain on the coil and cause it to fail prematurely.

What do all of the plugs look like when comparing them? What brand and part number are they?

Also, using a bad coil, measure with an ohmmeter and report the following:
  1. PNK/BLK - BLK
  2. PNK/BLK - Center conductor of the plug socket (inside the rubber boot)
  3. BLK - PPL
  4. BLK - BRN
It would help to have the same measurements from a known good coil also. It's hard to know for sure what is inside the coil pack, but the image below helps.


View attachment 23922
Going to work on that this weekend. Thank you.

On another note I happened to be running the HP tuners logging when it died during driving last weekend. I wonder if there could be any clues in there?

Nuker-
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Going to work on that this weekend. Thank you.

On another note I happened to be running the HP tuners logging when it died during driving last weekend. I wonder if there could be any clues in there?

Nuker-
Can't hurt. I doubt we will find a smoking gun, but it might be interesting. Post it up.
 

TheNuker

Goblin Guru
Hopefully will have time to get back to this wiring tomorrow. Tonight I spent replacing the bad fuel tank. The welds are night and day.


this picture is looking at the underneath of the fuse box and this row 9 4th from the top is the 2 pins connected to the INJ fuse that was blowing. I’m going to plan to trace back where this wire goes into the harness as another point to track this down.

about to just stick a 50amp fuse in and look for smoke

Nuker-
24063
 

TheNuker

Goblin Guru
So one last thing, I can't seem to get the **** thing to do more then fire for a second or 2 before dying with the MAF connected. I'm 87% sure I don't have any boost leaks.

I'm going to check for codes again but with it plugged in I was not getting anything MAF related. No P101/102/103 etc The hoses are all hooked up to the case breathers and intakes/charge pipes.

Nuker-
 

Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
Unplugging the MAF does change the way the ECU is running, open loop vs closed loop on yours? I would guess that something is wrong in the tune or in a sensor that it uses for closed loop?
 

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Are you sure you MAF is mounted in the correct direction? They are directional, at least I know they are on the SS/SC.

Do you HP Tuners? Can you send a tune file and a scan?
 

TheNuker

Goblin Guru
Are you sure you MAF is mounted in the correct direction? They are directional, at least I know they are on the SS/SC.

Do you HP Tuners? Can you send a tune file and a scan?

Yeah the arrow is pointed towards the turbo compressor, I'll start HP tuners logging and try to start it a few times + send the tune file. Maybe ZZP programmed it to not run a MAF?

Nuker-
 

TheNuker

Goblin Guru
Drove the car around about 15 miles cough cough off licensed roads and no issues..... I upgraded the 15amp fuse to a 40amp and added in an inline 15 amp fuse to the wire coming off the plastic fuse block to the injector rail and the coilpacks, Hoping one of those 2 blows before the 40amp so I'll know where to look. Worst case I'll upgrade them all to 40 amps and see where the burning happens :D

Nuker-
 

TheNuker

Goblin Guru
I started it up today and pulled codes after driving around for about 15 minutes. Got some new interesting codes here..... Removed the evap/AC/ABS codes.

I"m wondering if one of my new GM Stage 1 IAT/TMAP sensors is bad? Right now I have 2 of the same sensor that ZZP sells as a kit, one in the lower charge pipe with brass fitting provided by DF and the second matching sensor in the intake manifold.

The MAF code is there because it won't run for more than a second or 2 with it plugged in

And finally the most interesting part the P2301..... I've actually never had this prior to "Upgrading" the fuse to 30amp from 15amp. The car still runs and drives fine and the coils are obviously working fine still, so i'm looking at this error strongly.

Nuker-

0x544: U2113 (Current, Old, History)
0x544: U2129 (Current, Old, History)
0x544: U2172 (Current, Old, History)
0x7E8: P0100 - Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit (Pending, Current, Old)
0x7E8: P0113 - Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit High (Pending, Current, Old)
0x7E8: P0571 - Brake Switch A Circuit (Pending)
0x7E8: P0650 - Malfunction Indicator Light Control Circuit (Pending, Current, Old)
0x7E8: P2301 - Ignition Coil 1 Control Circuit High Voltage (Pending, Current, Old)
 
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TheNuker

Goblin Guru
Also to note, I put pins in the MAF plug on the harness and measured 12.64V on the red and black, The yellow signal wire to ground = 5v exactly.

Nuker-
 
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