P0335 Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Malfunction

[lksohm]

Hello all,

As I can finally get the Gob out this spring I keep randomly getting this P0335 code.

Donor is a 2007 LSJ

Symptoms:
While driving the engine goes limp and dies
Tach goes to zero
Car won't restart for a minute or two then fires right up as if nothing has happened. Car will crank and sputter a few times before dying in these first few minutes.

Conditions of the issue:
This seems to happen very randomly
No correlation to engine temp
Has happened with cruise control off or on
Has happened within the first mile of a cold start drive or after 25 miles.

What I have tried:
Searching for any wiring issue. Loose grounds, loose connectors...
Replaced the Crank Pos. Sensor
Reseated all related connectors

This is the car's 3rd season and I didn't mess with anything related this winter. Has anyone had this or similar issue?

Thanks!!!

 

[Gtstorey]

Ross has posted his alldata subscription for the 2006 which is probably the same for the 2007. The diagnostic steps are pretty simple with only a voltmeter and test light required. This assumes you can check it when the problem actually exists though.

 

[Sluggonaut]

I had similar symptoms on a totally different car and it turned out to be the fuel pump. It was on its way out but not yet completely failed.

Maybe run try some of the normal fuel pump troubleshooting (pressure, voltage, etc.) when the symptoms present themselves.

 

[PaulPerger]

I had these exact symptoms on my Fiat Abarth and it was the throttle body causing the issue.

I replaced mine, but a buddy was having issues and just did a "relearn" on his to resolve his issue.

 

[Gtstorey]

Same symptoms including a P0335 code?

 

[PaulPerger]

I don't remember the code exactly. (Do codes correlate across makes and models?) I can check my code history.

 

[Gtstorey]

Most codes do correspond across makes although there can be make specific codes.

 

[jirwin]

Throwing in my $0.02. I didn't have my battery terminals connected tight enough. They had similar symptoms to this, although it never happened when driving. What would happen is I would try to start, and it would audibly *click*. Then all everything is off. I think I even removed the terminal connections briefly to no avail. I waited a few minutes each time and it "fixed" itself. Took me a while to figure out it was the terminal connections. Its almost like it goes into a "safety" mode and won't let you do anything for a couple minutes. Strange.

 

[lksohm]

The wisdom of the council never fails here.
A few things to try

• Test fuel pressure, and pay attention to whether the pump is running
  • This would make some logical sense with how it behaves if it were to suddenly lose fuel pressure.
• Replace the throttle body. I actually have a spare.
  • (Do I need to do any relearn when I do this?)
• Test the battery and make sure I am getting good contact there

Thanks guys! My goal for the season is to make the car more reliable in the sense of it being just turn key and drive 500 miles with no worries.

 

[Gtstorey]

None of that addresses the P0335 except maybe the battery. That should always be step one when getting engine codes.

 

[OptimizePrime]

LSJ's I believe do not automatically relearn the crankshaft position like the LNF's do. What you could do is get a china Tech 2 and do a CKPS relearn. This will probably fix your issues if there's no wiring problem.

If memory serves and LNF is similar to LSJ, P0331 is crankshaft sensor/reluctor, P0335 is intake sensor/cam, P0336 is exhaust sensor/cam (this one is rare).

Did you overheat by chance?

 

[lksohm]

This morning before work I tried a few things.

• Tested fuel pressure
  • Goes right to 60 psi then settles at 50 psi with key off, stays there for a long time
  • With engine running stays right at 65 psi
• Tested battery
  • No issues found with connections
  • Tested very well, 500 amps under load
• Swapped in a spare throttle body
  • Fires right up as it always does, valve operates like the old one
  • Not sure if a relearn is needed for this or not

I am finding conflicting information on whether a relearn is needed for the crank sensor and also for the throttle body. The cobalt forums are full of people who just write what they think with no actual knowledge.

Did you overheat by chance?

No, I don't think it has ever come close to 200 degrees for me.

We are in a flash flood warning so I cannot take it for a test drive now.

 

[OptimizePrime]

Try your intake camshaft sensor before going down the Tech 2 route. You might be able to swap it with the exhaust camshaft sensor to test. Clear codes before and if your code changes to P0336 you know it's the sensor.

 

[Gtstorey]

From Ross's Aldata subscription for the 2006 LSJ

DTC P0335

CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
The crankshaft position (CKP) sensor signal indicates the crankshaft speed and position. The CKP sensor produces an AC voltage of varying amplitude and frequency. The frequency depends on the velocity of the crankshaft, and the AC output voltage depends on crankshaft position and battery voltage. The CKP sensor works in conjunction with a 58-tooth reluctor wheel attached to the crankshaft. The powertrain control module (PCM) determines the crankshaft position by the reference gap. The PCM can synchronize the ignition timing, fuel injector timing, and the spark knock control based on the CKP sensor and the camshaft position (CMP) sensor inputs. The CKP sensor is also used to detect a misfire. The CKP sensor circuits connect directly to the PCM. The circuits between the CKP sensor and the PCM consists of the following:

• A CKP sensor signal
• A low reference

If the PCM detects an incorrect number of pulses from the CKP sensor, DTC P0335 sets.

DTC DESCRIPTOR
This diagnostic procedure supports the following DTC:
DTC P0335 Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Circuit

CONDITIONS FOR RUNNING THE DTC

• The engine is cranking or running.
• DTC P0335 runs continuously once the above condition is met.

CONDITIONS FOR SETTING THE DTC

• The PCM detects an incorrect number of CKP pulses during engine cranking for 4 seconds .
• The PCM detects an incorrect number of CKP pulses while the engine is running for 2 seconds .

ACTION TAKEN WHEN THE DTC SETS

• The control module illuminates the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) on the second consecutive ignition cycle that the diagnostic runs and fails.
• The control module records the operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. The first time the diagnostic fails, the control module stores this information in the Failure Records. If the diagnostic reports a failure on the second consecutive ignition cycle, the control module records the operating conditions at the time of the failure. The control module writes the operating conditions to the Freeze Frame and updates the Failure Records.

CONDITIONS FOR CLEARING THE MIL/DTC

• The control module turns OFF the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) after 3 consecutive ignition cycles that the diagnostic runs and does not fail.
• A current DTC, Last Test Failed, clears when the diagnostic runs and passes.
• A history DTC clears after 40 consecutive warm-up cycles, if no failures are reported by this or any other emission related diagnostic.
• Clear the MIL and the DTC with a scan tool.

DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
For an intermittent condition, the vehicle may need to be operated within the conditions captured in the Freeze Frame/Failure Records. Inspect for one of the following conditions, if the code does set intermittently while operating within the conditions captured in the Freeze Frame/Failure Records. If one of the following conditions are not present, refer to Intermittent Conditions for inspections that would help aid in diagnosing an intermittent condition. See: Powertrain Management\Computers and Control Systems\Testing and Inspection\Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview\Intermittent Conditions

• Damage to the CKP reluctor wheel
• Incorrect sensor installation
• The sensor coming in contact with the CKP reluctor wheel
• A cracked or damaged sensor
• Foreign material passing between the sensor and the CKP reluctor wheel

TEST

Step 1 - Step 11

Step 12 - Step 19

 

[lksohm]

Thanks everyone! I was actually unaware of Ross's shared Alldata account. I'll have to thank him sometime.

I went through the procedure listed. I am getting 820 Ohms at the PCM from the sensor. No amount of shaking or pulling made me lose connection.
I am unsure if I am supposed to be getting 12V at the PCM going to the sensor with the ignition on, but I am not.

I tried a test drive and it failed after 8 miles and again after another 3.

Is it possible that I just need a relearn done on the CPK? If so, will it be outrageous for me to have a shop do that for me?

 

[Gtstorey]

If you take it to a shop to get work done, pay them to fix a problem not perform a procedure unless you are sure it’s the problem. You pay them to perform the procedure it’s not on them if it doesn’t work.
The actual diagnostic steps don’t show on my phone from what I posted (maybe the paste didn’t insert them at all). When I get a chance to set down at a computer all review the steps again. I would guess you should have 5v going to the sensor though .

 

[OptimizePrime]

Is it possible that I just need a relearn done on the CPK? If so, will it be outrageous for me to have a shop do that for me?

You may or may not have seen this before but could help (and we're here to help too).

Clutch relearn?

I've got a no crank, no fuel pump problem. I'm getting communication and codes P0230, P0807 and P0808. I can't believe the little clutch switch needs to learn anything, but I've seen dumber things on cars. I've been following ALOT of "no start" "no crank" posts and tried many of the fixes...

dfkitcar.com

[How To Install] VXDIAG - The poor man's Tech2

I noticed there wasn't a straight up how-to on the VXDIAG Tech2 tool, so I wanted to make a write up so no one else got confused on the installation. I hope this helps. Those of you who have potentiometers for pedal sensors will need to do a clutch-relearn should you replace that sensor...

dfkitcar.com

 

[Gtstorey]

Thanks everyone! I was actually unaware of Ross's shared Alldata account. I'll have to thank him sometime.

I went through the procedure listed. I am getting 820 Ohms at the PCM from the sensor. No amount of shaking or pulling made me lose connection.
I am unsure if I am supposed to be getting 12V at the PCM going to the sensor with the ignition on, but I am not.

I tried a test drive and it failed after 8 miles and again after another 3.

Is it possible that I just need a relearn done on the CPK? If so, will it be outrageous for me to have a shop do that for me?

Now that I see what actually got posted when I copied and pasted from aldata, it definitely did something strange.

Assuming you actually went directly to aldata, I guess step 6 is where you are saying you don't get 12v at? That should be 5v or less at that point, but might need a load of the test light for it to work right. And although the test procedure isn't completely clear, that should be with both the ECM and sensor connected (probed at the back of the sensor connector)

 

[lksohm]

Got back out to the car a bit ago.
The procedure says to use a test light which is what I did last night it didn't light at all. I used a multimeter and am getting about 2.5V going to the sensor with the ignition turned on. I don't see a short to voltage from my readings or a short to ground.
No bent pins or any sign of a bad connection. I cleaned everything with electrical contact cleaner to make sure.
The next thing to try on the procedure is to replace the PCM. I'd like to avoid that if at all possible.

 

[Gtstorey]

It will help if you say what steps you are see what values.

if the pcm/ECM is putting out less than 4.8v I think that is your problem but that is based upon the diagnostic for the later models. I guess there is a small chance that the older models work off of a lower value than 5v. Maybe someone else can confirm what voltage the 2007 should see. The older models do have a different part number for the ckp sensor. It will probably tell you within aldata if you dig enough. There may be a 5v reference wiring diagram in there somewhere. I did confirm the part number for the 06 and 07 is the same so the procedure should be the same.