Possible build

rkulow21

Member
I am planning on building a goblin but instead of using the lsj motor I was thinking of using a Honda K20 motor I know it’s not going to be easy but what’s everyone’s opinions on the idea?
 

DCMoney

Goblin Guru
With enough time and/or money you can do just about anything.

I'd recommend looking at the builds that are using the F40 transmission and seeing what those are requiring as far as modifications. If doing loads of more work than that is something you're interested in doing, have at it.

Tinkles build is the first one that comes to mind where he is modifying a standard frame for the F40 transmission. http://dfkitcar.com/forum/index.php?threads/tinkles-street-monster-no-donor-extended-city-chassis.577/

Frame mods are only the beginning of the changes you'll have to make. Electrical, drivetrain, potentially suspension, etc.
 

RouteAbel

Well-Known Member
The goblin was designed to use as much as possible from a donor car. You can forge this path but you will do it alone with no one else to rely on having done any engineering for you. Seems like a ton of risk for what? What is the upside to using the honda motor over the ecotec?
 

TheNuker

Goblin Guru
The goblin was designed to use as much as possible from a donor car. You can forge this path but you will do it alone with no one else to rely on having done any engineering for you. Seems like a ton of risk for what? What is the upside to using the honda motor over the ecotec?
VTEC YO!
But honestly if I was going to try another engine i'd do an f20c for that sweet 11k redline.

Nuker-
 

Ross

Goblin Guru
He already owns a built K20 800hp motor.
Do you also own stand alone engine wiring and gauges? (Honda, Hondata, Haltech, Holley)
Would you be running honda wiring harness for the lights too? I don't think the Cobalt BCM will work as a stand alone. Could go old school on the lights and skip the modern body computer module.
You probably would want to run a subframe from a Cobalt, with the suspension/wheel bearings/brakes from the Cobalt, with custom driveshafts.
The front suspension comes from DF, with Cobalt wheel bearings and brakes.
 

Lonny

Administrator
Staff member
I think a Honda K20 would be a very cool engine package, but for the amount of changes that it will take you will need to be a very capable welder and fabricator.

After you remove the portions of our kit that are purpose built for the Cobalt donor there is not going to be much left.
So your best route would be to get a Cobalt donor and use as much of the mechanical as you can and just change the engine and transmission.

Below are some of the tasks that you will need to complete that we are not going to be able to help with.

Wiring harnesses
Fuses and relays
Gauges and switches
Shifter
Fuel pump
Engine and transmission mounts
CV axles from Honda inboard to Cobalt outboard
Exhaust
Hydraulic clutch line, Cobalt to Honda

None of this is impossible, and it would be cool to sell you a kit and see the final product. While you are assembling it we can definitely help you with normal Goblin kit related questions but that's as far as we can go. The tough stuff is going to be up to you.

Good luck with your project, a high revving Honda would sound cool. Can't wait to hear it.
 

Tinkles

Well-Known Member
Could go old school on the lights and skip the modern body computer module.
This is the route I am going with my Goblin.

I am going to be running an older Ecotec from a Cavalier and the Cobalt PCM/ECU will not run it do to a different trigger wheel on the crankshaft. So at least electrically our builds would be very similar. Run a standalone ECU, build your own body harness, run universal gauges like Autometer or AEM. The amount of custom fabrication to fit the different drive-train would be greater than what mine needed to fit the F40.

I still recommend buying a donor. I didn't and it sucks having to make a junkyard trip for random parts.
 

KSLunsfo

Well-Known Member
I am going to be running an older Ecotec from a Cavalier and the Cobalt PCM/ECU will not run it do to a different trigger wheel on the crankshaft.
Out of curiosity, where exactly is the trigger wheel on these? On my DSM I switched over from the CAS (Cam Angle Sensor) that sends signals to the ECU for cam and (predicted) crank position to adding a dedicated trigger wheel on the crank. The previous tooth count was 2 cam, 4 crank, now it's 1 cam and 12 crank. Of course I have an AEM standalone making this possible. What I'm getting at... is there a way to change your trigger wheel?
 

rkulow21

Member
I would go standalone as that is what I'm most comfortable with I have a Datsun 280z with a 400sbc so i know a few things about engine swaps i figured the honda motor itself has a more proven power potential than the lsj, that being said i figured the dimensions wouldn't be too far off I'm hoping to keep it as original as i can but i understand that might be difficult
 

Lonny

Administrator
Staff member

rkulow21

Member
This is the mods from GM for the Ecotec to get it up to 1400 HP


You can get over 500 HP with an LSJ turbo swap from ZZP.
https://zzperformance.com/collections/ecotec/products/lsj-turbo-complete-swap-kit

The Honda is a very cool option but to get to over 400 hp to the tires, it may not be the most economical choice.
I haven't researched Honda upgrades at all but I am very interested in seeing one used with our Goblin.
A lot of k20’s can be built into monsters of a motor and be fairly stock, that’s one reason I wanted to try it out
 

JBINTX

Goblin Guru
Horsepower is all good. But, at some point, you become traction limited. A 1,600 lb Goblin with approximately 60R/40F weight distribution gives about 960 lb. down force on the rear axle. Not a lot of weight to try to get huge horsepower to the ground.
 

Ross

Goblin Guru
Horsepower is all good. But, at some point, you become traction limited. A 1,600 lb Goblin with approximately 60R/40F weight distribution gives about 960 lb. down force on the rear axle. Not a lot of weight to try to get huge horsepower to the ground.
Our Goblin with a 200 lb driver has 1100lbs on the rear, 600 on the front.
 

rkulow21

Member
Our Goblin with a 200 lb driver has 1100lbs on the rear, 600 on the front.
I know traction will be a big problem if I do get to very high horsepower but I would be happy with 500-600 my current setup is 500 in a 2800lb car and it runs high tens so I can’t imagine 600 at 1800lbs
 
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Waterdriver

Goblin Guru
I know traction will be a big problem if I do get to very high horsepower but I would be happy with 500-600 my current setup is 500 in a 2800lb car and it runs high tens so I can’t imagine 600 at 1800lbs
To obtain the same power to weight ratio you currently have, you only need approx. 285hp in the Goblin. Which is easily achievable and beyond with an Ecotec. Then you dont have to redesign the back half of the car. Unless thats what you want to do, 'cause that's half the fun.
 

Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
Attempting to install another engine/transmission into a Goblin will require some engineering skills, along with fabrication and welding talent, to make it work. This may be a project beyond the realm of all but the most experienced automotive savvy technician. Maybe too much which could eventually be a discouragement to completing the project and disappointment for the the person trying to do something different. Unless you are able to work at one of top automotive shops, this is the most likely outcome.
It has been explained that an Ecotec is fully capable of meeting or exceeding the HP numbers that anyone could ever want to put into a 1600LB car and be done with a reasonable budget. Sage advice from someone who has been down the 'possible build' path many times before, save yourself a lot of frustration and stick with the Ecotec/F35 combination that bolts into place and spend that extra money on more go-fast goodies from ZZP or another toy store. Ricer HP is no different or better than Detroit HP. ;)
 

Dale E

Well-Known Member
I hope this attachment will open okay. These are some opinions on this engine choice subject, so be gentle. I think everyone of you Goblin builders are dong a fantastic job and show wonderful creativity. Lonny and crew have given you a great foundation to build on. Lonny commented earlier that he would like to see this done. rkulow21 opened with "its not going to be easy" which indicates he is wanting the challenge. Thanks for listening. Dale
 

Attachments

Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
Dale, you are correct and each person does build their Goblin their own way. No two are alike or probably ever will be. Your message is very true and you are correct that any number of drivetrains could be used in the Goblin chassis with the right modifications and engineering.

But this is also highly dependent upon how much money you are willing to drop into a Goblin. Some have been built on a 'shoe string' using all 'stock' components and few frills to have a very nice, basic car for about $20K that is a great car to own and drive. Some others are putting many modifications into their cars to increase horsepower and handling (or buying many new parts versus using used parts) - while sticking with the DF design and Cobalt/HHR/G5 drive trains - getting to $30K or more. Some of these are street cars, others are purpose built track cars or drag racers that kick butt and take names on almost everything else put against them, many costing far more than the Goblin.

The realization that doing something out of the box - using a different drivetrain from any number of mentioned manufacturers and more - need to be prepared to spend some additional $$$ and time to achieve the end result. As Lonny noted, it would be interesting to see this completed and it would be a very unique car. But also know that much of the help provided by the Goblin family will not apply and finding answers will be an increased challenge. The best of luck if this is the path of choice and we will help out where and when we can, because that is what this family is all about. :)
 
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