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Stock Seat Belts vs Harness (or maybe both)

Esstover

Well-Known Member
E
So I recently purchased some inexpensive seats off of Amazon (link below). They slide and recline. They aren't really setup for a 5pt harness because the bottom cushion isn't split and doesn't have a place for the belt. I was thinking a 4pt harness might be best. Then my wife asked why we even needed harnesses at all? I think she might be right. The stock seat belts might be better since the seats move. Also I don't have any immediate plans to autocross race. I wanted to get some thoughts on Stock Seat Belts and also what I may want to do now to set myself up for a harness in the future if I decide to change.

Anyone have both?

 
Desert Sasqwatch
For the convenience factor the stock belts are adequate if there are no plans to track or get jiggy on the street. But keep in mind this is an open cockpit car and stock belts are not the safest in an accident - God forbid. 4 point harnesses are much safer and still work correctly with a non-racing seat.
 
Desert Sasqwatch
BTW, nice new set of 4 point harnesses for sale in the classifieds. Cam locks, which are easier to use. My shameless plug to sell a set I won't be using.

 
Ross
I have both.
37565


My stock seats didn't have a hole to put the 5th strap thru, so I cut one. You can buy seat grommets to hide the cut.
I like the stock 3 point harness for the street, as it is quick to get in and out. It also doesn't hold my shoulders against the seat, so I can turn my head farther, and see farther back, when doing shoulder checks and backing up.

I like the 5 point harness for autocross, as it holds me in the seat better. The passenger side only has the 5 point harness, as they don't need to do shoulder checks. It did require welding in a shoulder height bar into my frame, but I painted my frame, as I want to be able to make welding modifications.
 
Ross
The bar height depends on your seats and your back length. Ideally the shoulder straps will be horizontal as they approach the shoulder bar.
My stock seats and my 5'11" height, resulted in the bar being 7" above the stock cross bar.
 
escapepilot
I used the same seats in a different color.

I'm using a 4 point harness because the stock belts were trashed. The stock 3 point is easy to use but in a car with no crumple zone, a 3 point doesn't provide adequate protection. I have a nice long scar across my forehead thanks to the shortcomings of a 3 point harness.
 
E
BTW, nice new set of 4 point harnesses for sale in the classifieds. Cam locks, which are easier to use. My shameless plug to sell a set I won't be using.

I would be interested but I don't the Red will look to good with my color scheme. I'll keep it in mind though.
 
C
What are your priorities for a restraint system? Are you really concerned about safety, or is convenience more important?

Quick background: I testify in court about auto accidents all the time. Vehicle safety is a part of it

A vehicle's seat belt is part of a larger restraint system. Crumple zones, airbags, seat design, and of course the belt, all work together to keep you alive. If you take a stock car, and put a 6pt race harness in, you did NOT necessarily make it safer. What you really did is restrain your body much better, while allowing your head to flop about, putting unbelievable strain on your neck and spine in the event of a crash.

Back to the Goblin, we took the stock belt system and bolted it into a tube-frame chassis with no crumple zones, no airbags, and seats of unknown design. Even if you don't intend to track it, the goblin is much closer to a race car than any street car, and that means it's (probably) very stiff in a crash. The whole system is stiff, and your body restraint system also needs to be stiff to make the system work. To me, that means a harness. In a perfect world, you'd also need a HANS device to keep your head in place. But let's be realistic, you're not going to wear that on your way to the grocery store, plus you need a helmet with hans anchors on it.

Given everything I just said, I think a 4pt camlock harness is the most convenient and "safest" option for the goblin. I bought some off ebay and they worked great, but I ended up swapping them with a 5 pt SFI rated harness for track days. I don't think it's much safer, it just costs more and now you have a strap on your junk. Obviously different people arrive at different conclusions, as every goblins is different. But from an engineering/safety standpoint, I'd go 4pt camlock.

Best advice on the internet or your money back!
 
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