LaunchPad & OldB1's technology demonstrator -09 SS donar- #109

[LaunchPad]

This week we succeeded in getting the radiator hoses routed! We did change things up a bit. for one we used the ATV wench, coupled with a larger metal ring as our hose to rope clamp so that it would be further up the hose "taper". We also switched up to electrician lube and doubled up our rope when we found out the bigger one we obtained was too fat when knotted.

I got a good quote earlier in the week for our floor pan at Linux but I forgot to bring my calico stuff to remove the floor pan and take it to town.

 

[comegetjoe]

Yes, I think stoping and starting again is a huge part of things!

Smooth operation was key in pulling my hoses. I stopped and restarted and tore the end of the hose. Keep it steady.

 

[Robinjo]

Smooth operation was key in pulling my hoses. I stopped and restarted and tore the end of the hose. Keep it steady.

That and warm hoses.

 

[LaunchPad]

This week (4 Oct) on our traditional Wednesday only workday we managed to drag the black turbo car into Oldb1's shop and strip all but the rear axle and fuel tank. Having the rear axle still on the car (with doughnut spares) lets us roll it back out the shop and across the acreage wheelbarrow style with OldB1's mini skid steer. We kept the doors on so all the parts we are NOT using can be stuffed back inside and remain dry and critter free (after sealing the firewall hole) until such time they sell or get scraped.

Those axle nuts are HUGE! We had to remove the engine with the uprights still dangling on the end of the CV shafts until a new tool gets purchased.

Even though the car appeared pretty good we had some disappointment for some items. several things had to just be cut out of the car- a tie rod end, both anti-roll connectors, both A-arms. We also snapped the heads off frozen up cradle mounts. the front struts are not going to be satisfactory for reuse. We also did not like the amount of corrosion on the cradle itself- luckily we had a few spare cradles sitting around that can be painted and put on our Goblin. I think more research will be needed on my part to find what the recommended strut and A-arm upgrades are so I can get those flowing our direction soonest.

We found it interesting that there were no engine sling points on either of the 2 turbo motors we have. I intend to address this short coming at some point with my CNC plasma cutter. We also have a supercharged lacking lift points and a naturally aspirated engine sitting here that did not come (to us) in donor cars.

I took the sheet metal with me at the end of the day and dropped off with Linex of Omaha the next morning. They quoted me a deal of $200 for their Black premium liner on just the occupant side of the metal.

Outside of the goblin build it has been a kind of insane schedule with 'emergency' this and that's. The kiddo had her first car accident while wife and I were out of town for a supposed quite weekend that turned into anything but quiet and cut very short. I had trees down on my acreage that a crew of 4 guys with saws and a large skid steer only got 1/5th cleaned up after a full day! Both the wife's car and kiddos needed new A-arms and Struts (I was on the hook for a lot of that type work this last week!!!) the wife's car also needed a new CV shaft. Then I had a 2 different cross-country hauling trips to retrieve some auction goodies/tools destined for my shop.

 

[RCK605]

DF has a rear coilover kit to replace the cobalt front strut. It comes with everything needed. You could source your own coilover, but would then need the hardware to mount it.

When you say you cut the A-arm, do you mean the lower control arm? If your donor is an LNF you will need to source LNF control arms. The ball joint is a different size. You can also search the forum for OTTP ball joints. There has been some discussion on their aftermarket replacement. Fair warning, there are mixed reviews and opinions on OTTP and experiences with them.

 

[LaunchPad]

Thank you- A LOT. because everything helps right now.

No we didn't cut the lower arm exactly. but had to cut the ball joint on one side- and since it is riveted in place- I would not normally bother to replace these pieces... VW parts I just order a new set for like $49 or something negligible compare to the effort. apparently not the case I am learning with Cobalt pieces.

I've been reading until my eyes can't focus anymore on the "suspension" section of the forum and also shopping the various performance sites for these parts and lets just say I can obtain a whole donor car in some cases for less than just the OTTP bushings!!! (true store for the naturally aspirated car I have sitting here and barely below the turbo car we just disassembled)

Silly prices for next to nothing so far as ACTUAL material! I have a machine shop with multiple lathes, CNC milling centers, etc and can turn Derlin bushings for about 50 CENTS each. . . .they want $25 plus shipping for each. insane. . . .i would say they are gouging people in an extreme manner!

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Your donor is a SS/SC correct? Ball joints and bushings are still readily available for that model, since they were used across a wide range of GM models for at least a couple decades. The SS/TC (2008-2010) has no source of new ball joints - unless you can believe that OTTP has them (which is a whole bad story in itself) - and they are not available from the common sources (auto parts stores, online sources). The aluminum control arms for the TC are also no longer made and are becoming a rare commodity.

 

[LaunchPad]

thanks DS!

Our donor is a turbo car. it really makes little sense why GM would use different parts for a suspension just because is the car had a super charger rather than a turbo but that is the problem we apparently run into.

Now I was really hoping THIS project unlike many of my others would just be a bolt together by-the-numbers type of kit. . . .lol

I think I may have to go down a path that I had to do with some of my other custom car builds. Has anyone else looked into simply reaming the uprights to the correct taper for a different ball joint? I have taper reamers in my shop for nearly every ball joint ever produced and they were not terribly expensive either. Speedway motors sells some.

I did read today a thread herein on a possible tubular arm project- more complicated than I want to go. . . .BUT it is not overly difficult at all to EXACTLY mirror the "functioning" geometry of the originals out of tubing and a ball joint of choice. There may be a few examples on my Flickr page of other makes and models I have done exactly that on though I am not 100% sure those photos are still up- if not I could repost.

 

[Ark :D]

I had a turbo donor and just simply converted over to using the readily-available axles, knuckles, and control arms for the N/A and supercharged models. No need to hunt anything made of unobtainium.

 

[comegetjoe]

Our donor is a turbo car....Has anyone else looked into simply reaming the uprights to the correct taper for a different ball joint? I have taper reamers in my shop for nearly every ball joint ever produced and they were not terribly expensive either. Speedway motors sells some.

The newer turbo car ball joints are bigger, making the LSJ and N/A joints bigger would not help. OTTP at one point sold the bigger ball joints, not sure if they still have stock or not.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Just to clarify: The ball joints are not tapered, they are a straight post. The non-TC cars have ball joints with a post diameter of 0.750 inch, the TC cars have 0.805 inch posts. Correspondingly, the TC hub uprights have a larger mounting hole, so are not interchangeable with other models. As @Ark :D and others have done, they swapped out the TC control arms (rather than replacing the ball joints) and hub uprights to the non-TC parts to make future replacements possible.

 

[Sebnuts]

BUT it is not overly difficult at all to EXACTLY mirror the "functioning" geometry of the originals out of tubing and a ball joint of choice.

I have 3D models/dimensions of the stock SS/TC control arms I can share, I had a post about making tubular arms that were compatible with stock ones.
I built my own tubular arms (not compatible with stock). You can replace all of the bushings with heims easily. You can replace the ball joint with a hiem by using a custom pin that fits the knuckle.

Let me know if you want any additional info.

 

[LaunchPad]

I have 3D models/dimensions of the stock SS/TC control arms I can share, I had a post about making tubular arms that were compatible with stock ones.
I built my own tubular arms (not compatible with stock). You can replace all of the bushings with heims easily. You can replace the ball joint with a hiem by using a custom pin that fits the knuckle.

Let me know if you want any additional info.

AWESOME! yes i do love 3d files. I believe yours was the thread I read yesterday about the tubular project. That looks like a lot of effort but very well done.

 

[Sebnuts]

AWESOME! yes i do love 3d files.

What software/3D file format do you need?

 

[LaunchPad]

So i don't know if ya'll saw my stalker on the other builds thread but when i got it both front wheels had been ripped off in a track accident of simply hitting the candy cane too fast and the car did a belly slide and needed a whole new chassis too to be put back together. the Stalker for ME was a million lessons on how NOT to build a car.

Above the black arm is the upper Stalker control arm. You might notice a tie-rod end- yes a tie rod end, , , , that Brunton used for his upper ball joint- and the tubing was VERY thin. . . .1/2 dia 16 ga or maybe 18ga!! the ends of the tubing had cast in place rubber and were not adjustable. the Silver A-arm was a incomplete prototype of the EXACT same geometry as the stalker arm but it used off the shelf S10 ball joint for the S10 uprights Brunton used in his car. My prototype has 1/4 plate for the first version but ended up with heat formed/rolled edges 1/8" plate. it also had A LOT more room for the front shocks. . . Don't seem to have a picture of my version mounted, on this computer, but you can see the problem with Brunton's arm here:

 

[LaunchPad]

What software/3D file format do you need?

I am running the commercial version of Fusion 360 (i bailed out of SolidWorks in 2012 after a huge $$$ burn from them concerning windows 10)

so about anything should be of use. . .best is something editable if at all possible. dxf, dwg, f3d, etc. . . .

 

[Dale E]

My Stalker is 17 years old now with all original front suspension parts and bushings. Sorry you had a problem with it. Check your lower control arms though. They may be on the wrong side?? The shock mount on the LCA is angled so it positions the upper shock eye mount in the frame bracket -- not to the back. The bolt should be through the bracket, shock eye, bracket again??

Just curious!!

 

[LaunchPad]

Just to clarify: The ball joints are not tapered, they are a straight post. The non-TC cars have ball joints with a post diameter of 0.750 inch, the TC cars have 0.805 inch posts. Correspondingly, the TC hub uprights have a larger mounting hole, so are not interchangeable with other models. As @Ark :D and others have done, they swapped out the TC control arms (rather than replacing the ball joints) and hub uprights to the non-TC parts to make future replacements possible.

So the hubs and uprights of the turbo/non-turbo interchange? brakes? the naturally aspirated donor we have sitting here is 4 lug. . .our turbo car is 5 lug. Seems like GM really messed up big with their changes between models.

Today is our traditional Goblin Wednesday workday and I am about to head out to Oldb1's shop- seems he and I have a lot to discuss about the way forward. At least he will be happy about the floor pans I picked up last night from Linex. They look amazing!

 

[Sebnuts]

best is something editable if at all possible. dxf, dwg, f3d, etc

I can send you the mesh file generated from the scan data (.stl) and another file of primitive shapes that were fit to the scan data (.step). These 2 files share the same coordinate system, so if you drop them into fusion, they should overlay and give you a mesh to view and some geometry to work with.

I still use SolidWorks, so I can export the ball joint custom pin setup I did as an .iges or .step. It wont be parametrically editable in fusion but you can still modify it.

Shoot me a PM with your email address, I should be able to get you the files this evening.

 

[LaunchPad]

My Stalker is 17 years old now with all original front suspension parts and bushings. Sorry you had a problem with it. Check your lower control arms though. They may be on the wrong side?? The shock mount on the LCA is angled so it positions the upper shock eye mount in the frame bracket -- not to the back. The bolt should be through the bracket, shock eye, bracket again??

Just curious!!

Hi Dale!

The picture was taken YEARS ago- in out 6 year rebuild process. Yes, the shock did end up getting captured inside the upper bracket- eventually. We managed to get all new upper and lower arms from Minehart (SP) at Brunton cars about the time they were wrapped up in bankruptcy. The lowers were 100% identical with no twist at all between the lower shock brackets and undrilled- i am pretty sure my Flickr page has some of the drama about that mess notated. I do not know if something changed along the way. The arms also came without the rubber bushings inside and that alone caused a lot of grief.

Either way I am VERY partial to my version of the arms (lol) which we do not actually intend to run on the Stalker. . . .we have another car under development I refer to as the legacy car that is pretty much a morphing of lessons learned (and hopefully improved upon) from the Stalker and the styling of the 28 Bugatti powered by a LS3 that the arms are intended to be used on.