Wisconsin Registration

[Peregrinus]

Wait, what?!? If it was square tubing it would be legal? Who's brainiack idea is this that square tubing is somehow safer? Sounds like this rule is a bunch of BS created by someone who apparently has zero engineering and safety experience. This has got to be one of the worst excuses I've heard in a long time. Dip$hits in government!!!

Like I said there's literally no wordage in the state paperwork that says no tubular frame, I'm asking where they are pulling the rule from. Because it doesn't exist I've read through all 200 pages around 3 times. It's definitely bs

 

[Peregrinus]

How long does the Montana plate process take? I suppose I should start now so there's no lapse in being able to drive the car when it gets nice out.

The paperwork takes about 20 mins if u have everything u need. You'll also need a new certificate from DF if you got one in your name already ($30). Then a local cop to do your vin inspection which was super easy and took less than 5 mins for me. You could get it done and paperwork sent in in under a week likely. It took 4-6 weeks from when I sent my paperwork to my registered agent for my registration and stuff to show up. I'm just getting home from work, I'll post the whole process tonight for ya in detail.

 

[Ross]

Form a group of concerned citizens and put that decision back in the garbage. Texas just went thru that same BS, maybe their lawyer is available.

 

[Peregrinus]

Form a group of concerned citizens and put that decision back in the garbage. Texas just went thru that same BS, maybe their lawyer is available.

Yeah that's my plan, I just gotta sort out what I need to do to get it done.

 

[Peregrinus]

Okay, Home now.

So i'll Pull info from OptimizePrime's thread for Montana registration here for some of the required stuff, and change around what I did differently. Credit to all the form links and whatnot goes to him, I'm just resharing it, and also a link to his entire guide is here. it details HOW to fill in each form listed here in this post. so please use his guide for more indepth details.

Link to his thread and guide here: https://dfkitcar.com/forum/index.php?threads/guide-montana-registration.1971/
Almost all of this info and my experience came from using his thread. so again ALL credit here I give to him.

My Personal Wisconsin Procedure to get registered with Montana, title plates and all.

I personally used https://www.49dollarmontanaregisteredagent.com/

I'm not saying you have to use them, it's just who I used and I'll base my experience off that. ( mods if u want the link removed please let me know, like i said I'm not trying to advertise for them, just saying who i used and my experience )

• Step one, go to https://www.49dollarmontanaregisteredagent.com/ or your Registered agent of choice, and pay the fees ( $800 for everything here said and done, thats tax, title, registration, plate, and mailing costs for everything, no sales tax for Montana ) and pick your LLC name. ***From the time I paid, it took less than 15 minutes for the LLC to be registered with montana and my LLC paperwork to be in my email already.*** Use this link to search if a name is available for your LLC:

  Secretary of State

  biz.sosmt.gov
• Call up DF kit car and request your Manufacture Certificate of Origin and Invoice from DF Kit Car in the name of your chosen LLC name ( Not your name! ) DF now charges $30 I think for this. When i did it.
• They also need an Odometer Disclosure from DF that coincides with the MCO & Invoice Form found here: https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/downloads/Documents/MVR-180.pdf I used this form from OptimizePrime's thread. Credit to him for alot of this.
• A Montana dmv form MV1 Application for Certificate of title. Note: 49dollarmontanaregisteredagent did not require ME to fill this out, they said they would handle it on their end for me, and they did. form found here: https://dojmt.gov/wp-content/uploads/Application-for-Certificate-of-Title-for-Motor-Vehicle-1.pdf
• IF your goblin paperwork is already in your actual name you'll need a bill of sale, selling the goblin to your LLC. Note: If you requested all the MCO and invoice and all that to be redone in the LLC's name and pay the fee for a new MCO from DF, you won't need to do this step. Form found here if needed: https://dojmt.gov/wp-content/uploads/Bill-of-Sale.pdf
• MV-70A Inspection form, this is filled out by you, and signed by you, make sure to fill it out in its entirety. form found here: https://dojmt.gov/wp-content/uploads/Inspection-Checklist-Unconventional-Vehicles.pdf
• MV20 VIN Inspection form This needs to be filled out by a Local Police Officer, The Registered agent requested a business card from the officer/pd, aswell as the form filled out properly, they are just verifying the VIN plate from DF is installed, and the location of it and any other identifiable features. My VIN Inspection took under 5 minutes, I had all my paperwork, receipts, titles, and anything pertaining to the build just incase they asked for it, they might ask for it, they might not. Better to be safe than sorry here and have as much on hand as possible. You need to be able to prove any major items installed in the goblin ( major parts IE: motor, frame, etc.. ) are owned by you. IF they ask for it, in my case, the officer looked through my stack of papers in about 1-2 mins, and didnt even ask any questions. Form found here: https://media.dojmt.gov/wp-content/uploads/MV20-1.pdf
• You will also need the Articles of Organization from your LLC, if you used 49dollarmontanaregisteredagent, they will have it all on hand already, if you used another registered agent, just be sure to include the LLC paperwork from your registered agent of choice.

That's it, that's all I did. From start to finish, depending on the time it takes DF to get you the MCO and invoice and Odo statement, you should be able to do all the paperwork and VIN inspection in a few days. They told me when I mailed everything the wait at the moment was 4-6 weeks due to the pandemic, it took about 5 weeks all said and done, until a title, registration, and a plate showed up.

And just a reminder, please use Optimize's guide thread, he has detailed pictures of each form shown, highlighted, what to fill out, and in what manner. so please go check it out if you have questions of that nature.

 

[Ark :D]

Thanks for the write-up. For what it's worth, DF recommended having the MCO made out to me in advance, then when the time comes, just sign it over to your LLC via a notary.

 

[Peregrinus]

Thanks for the write-up. For what it's worth, DF recommended having the MCO made out to me in advance, then when the time comes, just sign it over to your LLC via a notary.

Yep both does the same thing, I included the bill of sale in the write up.

 

[Rttoys]

Wait, what?!? If it was square tubing it would be legal? Who's brainiack idea is this that square tubing is somehow safer? Sounds like this rule is a bunch of BS created by someone who apparently has zero engineering and safety experience. This has got to be one of the worst excuses I've heard in a long time. Dip$hits in government!!!

Just like motorcycles and insurance. If it has plastic farings, it’s a “sport bike”. Full or half fared, it’s a sportbike. If it’s naked, but exactly the same, it’s different.

Same at Pikes Peak, when we were racing it. If it had “clip on” bars, it was banned. One piece handlebars were ok. So that meant my 300cc Kawasaki ninja with clip ons was banned, but a Ducati Mulitstrada 1100cc with handlebars, was a-ok.

 

[gofast]

I'm at a cross road here. I'm Steve Meyer and live in Hixton, Wisconsin. I hauled Dustin Steinhorst's kit up from Texas along with mine. I have chassis 181. I haven't started my build log yet, but it's coming. My donor is dismantled, but because of multiple projects, no build progress. I have a roomy heated shop so the plan is to kick ass this winter and be done by spring.

I emailed the Wisconsin DOT right after Christmas basically asking if I could apply for registration now before the car is done. I said I was in the early stages of building a replica, but I didn't mention DF or Lotus 7. I got the green light to send in my application now. My MCO just arrived from DF yesterday.

Plan "A" was to send everything in now so if there were problems, I still had time to iron them out before the car was done. Now, I'm wondering if I shouldn't just be up front with my DOT contact and let her know what I'm building and acknowledge that I know one title has been revoked and ask her if I should expect my application will be denied if sent in. I may also say that our "group members" are of the understanding that a tube chassis is the issue and ask for clarification as we can't find any language in the regulations that prohibits tube chassis and add that the original Lotus 7 has a tube chassis.

So, my main question is; are you Wisconsin guys okay with me establishing some dialog with my contact? I know there are at least two Wisconsin titles that haven't been revoked. I don't want to draw attention to you. How many Wisconsin cars are there? I know of four including mine.
Please give me your thoughts. I'm unsure if I want to take on the WDOT if there are problems or just go the Montana route. However, if you guys as a group are up for a fight, I may be willing to take a leading role.

 

[Lonny]

You could make a list of all kit cars that are tube chassis and make them tell you why they allow some types of chassis and not others.

Show them an image of this frame and ask them if this frame can be registered after it is finished.
Then tell them it is a Cobra kit car frame.
I pretty sure they allow these.

 

[Peregrinus]

I'm at a cross road here. I'm Steve Meyer and live in Hixton, Wisconsin. I hauled Dustin Steinhorst's kit up from Texas along with mine. I have chassis 181. I haven't started my build log yet, but it's coming. My donor is dismantled, but because of multiple projects, no build progress. I have a roomy heated shop so the plan is to kick ass this winter and be done by spring.

I emailed the Wisconsin DOT right after Christmas basically asking if I could apply for registration now before the car is done. I said I was in the early stages of building a replica, but I didn't mention DF or Lotus 7. I got the green light to send in my application now. My MCO just arrived from DF yesterday.

Plan "A" was to send everything in now so if there were problems, I still had time to iron them out before the car was done. Now, I'm wondering if I shouldn't just be up front with my DOT contact and let her know what I'm building and acknowledge that I know one title has been revoked and ask her if I should expect my application will be denied if sent in. I may also say that our "group members" are of the understanding that a tube chassis is the issue and ask for clarification as we can't find any language in the regulations that prohibits tube chassis and add that the original Lotus 7 has a tube chassis.

So, my main question is; are you Wisconsin guys okay with me establishing some dialog with my contact? I know there are at least two Wisconsin titles that haven't been revoked. I don't want to draw attention to you. How many Wisconsin cars are there? I know of four including mine.
Please give me your thoughts. I'm unsure if I want to take on the WDOT if there are problems or just go the Montana route. However, if you guys as a group are up for a fight, I may be willing to take a leading role.

In my opinion, They are already digging, the titles that arnt revoked are likely on borrowed time, do what you have to do, I don't think it'll hurt anything any worse as long as you arnt pointing fingers to the other guys. Maybe toll make more progress than we did.

 

[Peregrinus]

You could make a list of all kit cars that are tube chassis and make them tell you why they allow some types of chassis and not others.
View attachment 19944
Show them an image of this frame and ask them if this frame can be registered after it is finished.
Then tell them it is a Cobra kit car frame.
I pretty sure they allow these.

It's not just the kit cars they are fighting, he told me they also pulled quite a large handful of titles for old t bucket style hotrods too, and some other stuff, 2020 strikes again basically, but I will definitely forward that picture to my guy when I finally get the email from the head lady in madison with actual reasons for their denying stuff. He hasn't called me back for 2 days yet, hopefully they are actually doing something. When I called I told them we were going to do the same thing texas did with the GoFundMe for the lawyer and get stuff rolling if that was what we had to do, especially if they are going to make up rules that arnt even vaguely in the wordage.

It really seems as though it's just the head lady in Madison and the inspector specifically in madison area that is causing the issue. My local inspector said he would likely have passed it if we had followed all the safety requirements. And didnt try to cheese things about using a replica kit and did it as a homemade title properly. But when he tried to push that he hit the Madison inspector and head lady.

 

[Lonny]

It can be done, you need JSATX and Faron, they are the ones to credit for getting the ball rolling in Texas, and staying with it.

 

[Peregrinus]

It can be done, you need JSATX and Faron, they are the ones to credit for getting the ball rolling in Texas, and staying with it.

Yeah, I was still holding out hope that they would realize we SHOULD be able to do it through the homemade section, as long as we had all safety devices required of a model year of the kit.

So for most use cases, we'd need windshield/wipers, fenders on all 4 wheels, front and rear bumpers, non-hydraulic parking brake, all reflectors and side markers, headlights and tail lights, and horn.

Technically we'd also be required to have abs and airbags, but I don't know on that one. He did say that one would have been the one sticking point on that route.

 

[Peregrinus]

Here is the 4 documents by the ways guys for all the wordage for wisconsin.

 

[Dsteinhorst]

A quick update on my unique situation. Long story short, my car is a gocart.

MT cannot assign a title because they can see that it has been titled in WI; even though the title has been revoked. I have essentially two options.

1. DF sends me a new VIN and MCO. I reached out to them, and understand how it can be a hard decision. Have not heard back.
2. WI grants me a title only without registration so I can transfer. I'm going to get ahold of my inspector in the next couple days, but I definitely to not have high hopes.

The only other possibility is if another state will assign a title to a car that has had a title before, revoked or not. I would think MT would be the one, but it's not.

Advice to my WI cohorts: Go MT route. If you have a valid WI replica title, transfer to MT immediately. The risk if you don't is never being able to title it anywhere ever again. This is pending DF's decision on whether they will be issuing new VINs for existing frames.

Anyone in WI who has gone MT route or has not finished their Goblin should fight for a way to legality.

 

[Fozda]

I've printed the paperwork and started filling it out but I'm getting hung up on coming up with a name for my LLC. Anyone have any ideas I can use?

 

[Ark :D]

Fozda Enterprises, LLC?

 

[Fozda]

Fozda Enterprises, LLC?

Seems so simple!

 

[gofast]

A quick update on my unique situation. Long story short, my car is a gocart.

MT cannot assign a title because they can see that it has been titled in WI; even though the title has been revoked. I have essentially two options.

1. DF sends me a new VIN and MCO. I reached out to them, and understand how it can be a hard decision. Have not heard back.
2. WI grants me a title only without registration so I can transfer. I'm going to get ahold of my inspector in the next couple days, but I definitely to not have high hopes.

The only other possibility is if another state will assign a title to a car that has had a title before, revoked or not. I would think MT would be the one, but it's not.

Advice to my WI cohorts: Go MT route. If you have a valid WI replica title, transfer to MT immediately. The risk if you don't is never being able to title it anywhere ever again. This is pending DF's decision on whether they will be issuing new VINs for existing frames.

Anyone in WI who has gone MT route or has not finished their Goblin should fight for a way to legality.

I've been in contact with WDOT. I've been very upfront with them about what I am building. I made sure they know it has a tube frame chassis, just like the original Lotus Seven. I also acknowledge to them I know your title had been revoked (I didn't mention you by name). I remember you saying they referred to your car as a sand rail, so I made a point of mentioning that my car will have body side panels, fenders, a safety glass windshield and front and rear bumper. There were a number of emails back and forth with my contact person. She emailed me today and said she forwarded everything to someone who deals with kit cars and I should have a determination in two or three business days. I kind of went through the back door in that I did not submit an application or pay any fees. I simply asked if I submit my application and fees correctly, will Wisconsin title and license my car. If rejected, I asked to know why. If rejected, the Montana option is still open to me.

To those going the Montana route, is getting insurance a problem?