LSJ 2.0 -> LAP 2.2 Swap or (LSJ Ion Redline Engine)

Grayson

Grayson

Active Member
Hi everyone,
It seems that my LSJ SC engine that I have is starting to have issues and is in need of a rebuild. Started knocking recently and looks like it might have oil in one of the cylinders. Sounds like a lower end knock. I'm not proficient enough to attempt a rebuild by myself so i've been calling local Dallas shops to get quotes on rebuilds for the LSJ. So far the quotes have been around 8k-10k which are numbers that i'm not the biggest fan of. I also haven't been able to find already rebuilt LSJs for a number less than 8k.
An option that I found is a couple places offer a 2.2 for a lot less money. I was wondering if I could swap in a 2.2 in place of my 2.0 and what all I would have to do to make it work.
I would also like to keep the supercharger from my 2.0 and put it on a 2.2 if I did this swap. I figure I would need to swap the engine harness and the PCM to a 2.2 tuned for a SC. Would it integrate to the main harness or would I have to swap the main harness as well?

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Side note: A lot of people I've talked to have recommended a swap such as a K swap or a VR6 swap, however I would like to stick with the Chevy family if possible to make it easier to get on the road.
 
Mattc3366

Mattc3366

Active Member
The Saab 9-3 has the B207r engine I believe. As far as I’ve read the LSJ and Saab blocks are identical. I can get the entire Saab engine near me with the turbo on it for around $5-700. Do some looking into that route if your not wanting to do a rebuild but your still going to be swapping the head over
 
Grayson

Grayson

Active Member
Mattc3366 said:
The Saab 9-3 has the B207r engine I believe. As far as I’ve read the LSJ and Saab blocks are identical. I can get the entire Saab engine near me with the turbo on it for around $5-700. Do some looking into that route if your not wanting to do a rebuild but your still going to be swapping the head over
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I'll look into that. After a quick search they are about $1,000-$1,200 it seems for a B207r. I would like to try to find something that is already rebuilt or redone so I don't have to worry about it for a while.
 
jirwin

jirwin

Goblin Guru
You definitely can't swap to an LAP. LAP has VVT and a 58x reluctor on the crank. You could make a hybrid, or use an LAP block (probably), but that involves work you already said yoh didn't want to do. As someone who's built an engine now, its not all that difficult. Just take your time and label everything
 
Robinjo

Robinjo

Goblin Guru
You may be better off to buy another busted up donor and rob the engine from it. Then just sell the stuff you don't need. There were a couple times I almost did this just to get the LSD trans and a spare engine.

Or you can look for an engine on the Facebook Marketplace (tFB-M) but I'd want to see it running. Not saying people on tFB-M are sketchy but I sell on there and I'm super sketch. And I'm in the middle of fighting a person that 'sold' me a valve cover and never shipped it. FWIW, I hate tFB-M......
 
comegetjoe

comegetjoe

Goblin Guru
I'm sorry, did you mistype 8-10k? That ridiculous.

Check fb for an absolutely MINT donor for that money and pull the motor.
 
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A

ah.b.normal

Goblin Guru
[QUOTE
Side note: A lot of people I've talked to have recommended a swap such as a K swap or a VR6 swap, however I would like to stick with the Chevy family if possible to make it easier to get on the road.
[/QUOTE]
NOTE: "A lot of people" say "a lot of things". I'm a little tired of hearing how "seemingly any motor on the planet would be a better choice than an ECO TEC". I must confess I have never seen anyone make the change beyond Tesla guy and rubber band guy. So to your suggesters; I would ask them to send pix of their swaps! They usually never comment further. I suspect because they never installed a different motor in anything. There is no shame in sticking to the Eco-Tec, IMO it is as viable an engine platform as any.
 
Grayson

Grayson

Active Member
Gtstorey said:
At least I hope that isn't a stock rebuild. Maybe a performance build?
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The quotes ive been getting are for a stock rebuild in Dallas. Seems like no one down here wants to touch these engines. I did find a Saturn Ion Redline Supercharged engine for sale for a good price. Since that was the same engine in the Cobalt SS I bought would that work? Or is there something different between the ion and cobalt? Such as PCM, Wiring harness compatibility ETC. Mine was a 2007 and the ion is a 2004.
 
Grayson

Grayson

Active Member
ah.b.normal said:
[QUOTE
Side note: A lot of people I've talked to have recommended a swap such as a K swap or a VR6 swap, however I would like to stick with the Chevy family if possible to make it easier to get on the road.
Click to expand...
NOTE: "A lot of people" say "a lot of things". I'm a little tired of hearing how "seemingly any motor on the planet would be a better choice than an ECO TEC". I must confess I have never seen anyone make the change beyond Tesla guy and rubber band guy. So to your suggesters; I would ask them to send pix of their swaps! They usually never comment further. I suspect because they never installed a different motor in anything. There is no shame in sticking to the Eco-Tec, IMO it is as viable an engine platform as any.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks! Good to know. That kinda what I was thinking as well but I thought i would consult the experts
 
A

ah.b.normal

Goblin Guru
Grayson said:
NOTE: "A lot of people" say "a lot of things". I'm a little tired of hearing how "seemingly any motor on the planet would be a better choice than an ECO TEC". I must confess I have never seen anyone make the change beyond Tesla guy and rubber band guy. So to your suggesters; I would ask them to send pix of their swaps! They usually never comment further. I suspect because they never installed a different motor in anything. There is no shame in sticking to the Eco-Tec, IMO it is as viable an engine platform as any.
Click to expand...
Thanks! Good to know. That kinda what I was thinking as well but I thought i would consult the experts
[/QUOTE]
A lot of Eco-Tec stuff changed about 2007 or 08. VVT was added, independent coils, I think the crank reluctor wheel is different(more teeth?) 2cam sensors.
That Ion Red Line is a good motor but with near yearly changes it doesn't fit everybody's Cobalt! Do your research before investing. I believe if your Cobalt/ donor was an 05/06 that Red Line motor would swap.
 
Rauq

Rauq

Goblin Guru
Off the top of my head the only difference with the drivetrain hardware in the Ion is the early years have the vehicle speed sensor on the intermediate shaft instead of in the trans, which means a Redline F35 is not quite a straight swap. Some of the clutch hydraulics are a little different too, but again, not an issue for what you're trying to do, I don't think. The engine itself should be the same and should work.

As long as the engine ran before it got pulled, I would have no hesitation running a used and un-rebuilt engine in my Goblin. You could even build/rebuild the current engine once you pulled it out. In my opinion, if you've got the skills to build a Goblin, you've got the skills to re-ring and re-bearing your current engine.
 
Grayson

Grayson

Active Member
Rauq said:
Off the top of my head the only difference with the drivetrain hardware in the Ion is the early years have the vehicle speed sensor on the intermediate shaft instead of in the trans, which means a Redline F35 is not quite a straight swap. Some of the clutch hydraulics are a little different too, but again, not an issue for what you're trying to do, I don't think. The engine itself should be the same and should work.

As long as the engine ran before it got pulled, I would have no hesitation running a used and un-rebuilt engine in my Goblin. You could even build/rebuild the current engine once you pulled it out. In my opinion, if you've got the skills to build a Goblin, you've got the skills to re-ring and re-bearing your current engine.
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Awesome, I think Ill try to redline engine. I also bought a F23 trans from DF that I was going to use so I might swap it on and sell the F35 anyways. I plan to rebuild my current engine but want to get the goblin on the road pretty quick and it seems the fastest way to do that is to buy the redline engine and rebuild the cobalt engine as a backup for later.
Thanks for the input! You think if I switch to the F23 I bought from DF it would fix the speed sensor issue? I think it would just due to a total different trans where the sensor is located. But I don't know these as well as yall do so let me know what you think.
 
A

ah.b.normal

Goblin Guru
Grayson said:
Awesome, I think Ill try to redline engine. I also bought a F23 trans from DF that I was going to use so I might swap it on and sell the F35 anyways. I plan to rebuild my current engine but want to get the goblin on the road pretty quick and it seems the fastest way to do that is to buy the redline engine and rebuild the cobalt engine as a backup for later.
Thanks for the input! You think if I switch to the F23 I bought from DF it would fix the speed sensor issue? I think it would just due to a total different trans where the sensor is located. But I don't know these as well as yall do so let me know what you think.
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The F23 speed sensor is different from the automatic but I do not know what type plug the F35(in your engine harness) uses. Both manuals' speed sensors are in similar locations, near the output for the left half shaft.
The F23 speed sensor plug is the same as the ambient temp sensor behind the left headlight. That is in the headlight harness. 99-07 C1500 trucks also use this same plug on the temp sensor (the trucks are more plentiful, if looking for a donor in the junk yard).
 
Rauq

Rauq

Goblin Guru
Grayson said:
Awesome, I think Ill try to redline engine. I also bought a F23 trans from DF that I was going to use so I might swap it on and sell the F35 anyways. I plan to rebuild my current engine but want to get the goblin on the road pretty quick and it seems the fastest way to do that is to buy the redline engine and rebuild the cobalt engine as a backup for later.
Thanks for the input! You think if I switch to the F23 I bought from DF it would fix the speed sensor issue? I think it would just due to a total different trans where the sensor is located. But I don't know these as well as yall do so let me know what you think.
Click to expand...
If you use an F23 from DFKC it'll be set up for a Cobalt speed sensor which means it's in the trans. You'd only be stuck if trying to use an '04 Redline F35 without the accompanying intermediate shaft.

I'm a big fan of the F23 swap, but it does require some custom-ish coolant lines to and from the oil cooler. I can point you towards that if need be. You can sell the F35 trans for a decent price as well which helps offset costs.
 
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