Rauq's Twincharged LSJ in SC - #240 - GOBZILA
- Thread starter Rauq
- Start date
Rauq
Goblin Guru
I had a short between the pink and green wires to the reverse connector, in about the only spot in the engine harness that wasn't wrapped real well. Not sure if that was a coincidence or cause and effect or just what I deserved to get for my incompleteness. In any case, all the lights work as they should now.
Corgithulhu
Well-Known Member
Rauq: "I just want this transmission swap to be short and simple"
monkey's paw curls
monkey's paw curls
Rauq
Goblin Guru
Haha it quickly snowballed with a few "while I'm in there" moments... I last drove it in November and have only recently had a few Goblin friendly days with morning temperatures above 60. I took it off insurance once I parked it and started the teardown, so I'd kinda planned for it to be down for a while. Once I get back up and running I don't plan on taking it back down for any extended period of time until the next winter. I feel like I can do a pulley and fuel injectors in a weekend over the summer.
Rauq
Goblin Guru
My alternator's not charging the battery. I've got right at 12v with the engine off, and less than that with the engine running. I only got one start (with a few minutes idling) before I realized there was an issue, so I didn't have the juice to start it again. After work today, I plan to crank it again to see if I can command the alternator on with HP Tuners: "Generator L-Term: Command the Generator/Alternator L-Term." If that's what I think it is, hopefully that will tell me it's a computer issue rather than an alternator issue. My car's done this before, but I could usually correlate it to having gone into limp mode before I got my tune dialed in. The alternator tested good once last year and never gave me any unexpected issues.
If that doesn't change anything, I hope I can pick up +12v on either pin at the connector on the alternator, labeled variously as "Gen F-Term/L-Term" and "Generator Turn On/Field Duty Cycle Signal." I suspect a broken wire on either pin would lead to no alternator output. If I get nothing there, check continuity between the pins on the connector and the PCM connector. If there's still nothing, I'll try a new alternator (although I guess check the one-way pulley first). Nobody carries the LSJ alternator so I'll hope I can pick one up that's got a pulley I can swap for the SS/SC alternator pulley.
I have next to no resistance between the positive output on the alternator and the +12V post on the fuse box, nor any resistance between the alternator case and the frame ground stud under the fuse box.
If that doesn't change anything, I hope I can pick up +12v on either pin at the connector on the alternator, labeled variously as "Gen F-Term/L-Term" and "Generator Turn On/Field Duty Cycle Signal." I suspect a broken wire on either pin would lead to no alternator output. If I get nothing there, check continuity between the pins on the connector and the PCM connector. If there's still nothing, I'll try a new alternator (although I guess check the one-way pulley first). Nobody carries the LSJ alternator so I'll hope I can pick one up that's got a pulley I can swap for the SS/SC alternator pulley.
I have next to no resistance between the positive output on the alternator and the +12V post on the fuse box, nor any resistance between the alternator case and the frame ground stud under the fuse box.
Trail_Creeper
Active Member
Oreilly's had mine in stock. $180-ish
Jareth
Goblin Guru
Just checked Oreily Auto online and it is $380
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/acdelco/acdelco-145-amp-alternator/acd0/84009358/v/a/19098/automotive-car-2007-chevrolet-cobalt?q=84009358&pos=0
Same part number 84009358 on Amazon $267
https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-84009358-Original-Equipment-Alternator/dp/B01N0OQV0F
.
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/acdelco/acdelco-145-amp-alternator/acd0/84009358/v/a/19098/automotive-car-2007-chevrolet-cobalt?q=84009358&pos=0
Same part number 84009358 on Amazon $267
https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-84009358-Original-Equipment-Alternator/dp/B01N0OQV0F
.
Corgithulhu
Well-Known Member
I see the O'Reilly down here in Mauldin has it in stock per their website. Any local parts for my Goblin came from those guys and they know it well, so they'd be excited if you told them about yours!
Rauq
Goblin Guru
Update, I got 14v intermittently by wiggling the 2 wire connector on the alternator. Replaced the connector and nothing changed, so I'm assuming it's the alternator side of that connector. Tried to get fancy and pick up a base model alternator, but that's not going to work. It looks like it'd bolt up, but the electrical connector is different enough that I don't think I can acceptably ghettofab something up. I didn't even bother trying to sort out swapping pulleys between the two. I'm going to pick up an LSJ alternator from a shop about a half hour away in the morning (which I wouldn't have been able to make it to before close tonight). I have a weekend in the mountains planned with some buddies that I really don't want to miss out on.
Trail_Creeper
Active Member
Correction, I found my receipt. Got mine from autozone for $165 with a military discount.
Ross
Goblin Guru
We need an LSJ altenator.
The LSJ has a reverse rotation altenator, that has a special one-way pulley on it.
When you get off the throttle, the fast rotating altenator will spin down slowly, as the pulley disconnects from the slow moving 6 rib belt.
I once mickey-mouse jammed my worn-out special one way pulley, so that it doesn't disconnect. The first time I got off the throttle, it unthreaded the pulley bolt, an left the parts on the road. So I spent $80 on that special one-way altenator pulley. Fixed!
The LSJ has a reverse rotation altenator, that has a special one-way pulley on it.
When you get off the throttle, the fast rotating altenator will spin down slowly, as the pulley disconnects from the slow moving 6 rib belt.
I once mickey-mouse jammed my worn-out special one way pulley, so that it doesn't disconnect. The first time I got off the throttle, it unthreaded the pulley bolt, an left the parts on the road. So I spent $80 on that special one-way altenator pulley. Fixed!
Rauq
Goblin Guru
I was hoping that I could swap pulleys between the two but I didn't even bother trying as they have different electrical connectors as well. If I'd realized it, I might've considered buying a pigtail for the new connector. I didn't even bother to see if the pulleys could be swapped. I figured it would've been a long shot with the different rotational directions and one-way clutch.
I did pick up an LSJ alternator this morning and will slap it in over lunch.
I did pick up an LSJ alternator this morning and will slap it in over lunch.
Rauq
Goblin Guru
I did manage to make my 4 hour round trip, plus a couple mountain passes, on the new F23 setup. Unfortunately I had a decent fluid leak from inside the bellhousing that contaminated the clutch disc, preventing me from putting down anything more than half throttle. I still managed to hang with everyone in the mountains. I surprisingly didn't seem to have any issues with trans fluid levels, only topped off twice.
I got everything pulled back apart and found this torn input shaft seal. The seal surface on the input shaft was cleaned up, and the seal and input shaft lubed during assembly. Not sure if I just didn't do an adequate job there or if the seal was defective and I just didn't notice it. In any case, I have a new clutch disc and slave cylinder on the way, and will slap everything back together and get back on the road.
I got everything pulled back apart and found this torn input shaft seal. The seal surface on the input shaft was cleaned up, and the seal and input shaft lubed during assembly. Not sure if I just didn't do an adequate job there or if the seal was defective and I just didn't notice it. In any case, I have a new clutch disc and slave cylinder on the way, and will slap everything back together and get back on the road.
Rauq
Goblin Guru
Update on my F23 swap:
I've been through 5 tanks of fuel on my F23 swap and consider it generally wrapped up. I think it was well worth the effort.
I bought a junkyard 3.84 final drive F23 from a Cobalt for $200 with 60k miles on it back in November of last year. I also ordered F23 transmission mounts from DF before they were added to the store. They're available now, but you might have to contact DFKC to get just the front trans mount (the rear is the same between F23/F35), and to get the F23 shifter cable bracket.
For an LSJ, the swap requires a base model thermostat housing, as the LSJ one interferes with the shifter cable bracket mount on the F23 transmission. While the base model and turbo thermostat housings are nearly identical, you will need the base model thermostat housing- the turbo one has an additional threaded hole for the turbo coolant feed line. Both will have a threaded hole for a temp sensor (LSJ is the only one with a sensor in the head). You can plug that hole with a BMW oil drain plug. You will also have to re-plumb the coolant lines that go to the oil cooler. To pipe them like the LNF, you will need a 3/4" hose tee to splice the oil cooler return into the expansion tank line, and a 1 1/4" hose tee to splice into the radiator incoming line.
Besides that, the hardware is otherwise pretty straightforward and has been well documented. If you're starting with an LSJ, you only need base model axles, and they'll go straight into LSJ wheel hubs. The clutch and pressure plate don't care which transmission they're hooked up to. My F35 slave cylinder was good, and I've read you can make it work, but I just installed a new F23 slave cylinder. The Goblin hard line required a little bit of bending, but the bleeder is now in a much easier place to reach. I did have to buy a new base model Cobalt clutch pipe (12582665) for the bleeder elbow. I broke mine trying to get a bleeder unstuck but can't remember if that was just me being stubborn or what.
I swapped to the new DF shifter at the same time as the trans swap so I don't really have an apples-to-apples comparison, but the new trans does seem to shift easier at high RPMs than the F35 did.
I also installed an OBX LSD as part of my swap. I didn't expect Quaife quality, but I'm happy with it so far. I picked up a replacement hardware kit from this dude and flipped the helical gears as they were backwards. But I was able to get that diff in a week for $400, rather than a long delivery date from overseas and $1xxxx for the Quaife. The diff swap is real easy (aside from pulling the case races) if you can 3d print an input shaft spline to socket adapter. I can elaborate on that if need be. I did a fluid change after putting about 500 miles on the swap and the fluid looked good, so I don't have any reason to believe anything's not working as it should. It spins both tires from a dig and will not one-wheel peel in a turn, although I've never driven a non-LSD Goblin for comparison.
I also think the gearing is a little better in the F23. The RPM drop on a flat out 1-2 shift is about 500 rpms shorter on an F23 versus the F35 (for reference, the F40 has a similar 1-2 RPM drop as the F35, and only has a shorter RPM drop than the F23 and F35 on the 3-4 and 4-5 shifts). Second gear is a bit shorter in the F23 versus the F35. If you're starting with an LSJ 4.05 final drive F35, you'll cruise about 150 rpms lower at highway speed. Folks have talked about the HHR 4.17 final drive F23, but in my mind that's really only a big deal if you're running tires taller than 25" (which is Cobalt size).
I started with the bees knees 4.05 LSD/G85 F35 and expect to be able to sell it for much more than the cost of my swap, and if I ever manage to pop this F23 (unlikely, as I understand it's actually a stronger trans) then I should be able to pick another up for a couple hundred bucks. Between LKQ and www.car-part.com it looks like there's at least a couple dozen replacements within 50 miles of me.
I've been through 5 tanks of fuel on my F23 swap and consider it generally wrapped up. I think it was well worth the effort.
I bought a junkyard 3.84 final drive F23 from a Cobalt for $200 with 60k miles on it back in November of last year. I also ordered F23 transmission mounts from DF before they were added to the store. They're available now, but you might have to contact DFKC to get just the front trans mount (the rear is the same between F23/F35), and to get the F23 shifter cable bracket.
For an LSJ, the swap requires a base model thermostat housing, as the LSJ one interferes with the shifter cable bracket mount on the F23 transmission. While the base model and turbo thermostat housings are nearly identical, you will need the base model thermostat housing- the turbo one has an additional threaded hole for the turbo coolant feed line. Both will have a threaded hole for a temp sensor (LSJ is the only one with a sensor in the head). You can plug that hole with a BMW oil drain plug. You will also have to re-plumb the coolant lines that go to the oil cooler. To pipe them like the LNF, you will need a 3/4" hose tee to splice the oil cooler return into the expansion tank line, and a 1 1/4" hose tee to splice into the radiator incoming line.
Besides that, the hardware is otherwise pretty straightforward and has been well documented. If you're starting with an LSJ, you only need base model axles, and they'll go straight into LSJ wheel hubs. The clutch and pressure plate don't care which transmission they're hooked up to. My F35 slave cylinder was good, and I've read you can make it work, but I just installed a new F23 slave cylinder. The Goblin hard line required a little bit of bending, but the bleeder is now in a much easier place to reach. I did have to buy a new base model Cobalt clutch pipe (12582665) for the bleeder elbow. I broke mine trying to get a bleeder unstuck but can't remember if that was just me being stubborn or what.
I swapped to the new DF shifter at the same time as the trans swap so I don't really have an apples-to-apples comparison, but the new trans does seem to shift easier at high RPMs than the F35 did.
I also installed an OBX LSD as part of my swap. I didn't expect Quaife quality, but I'm happy with it so far. I picked up a replacement hardware kit from this dude and flipped the helical gears as they were backwards. But I was able to get that diff in a week for $400, rather than a long delivery date from overseas and $1xxxx for the Quaife. The diff swap is real easy (aside from pulling the case races) if you can 3d print an input shaft spline to socket adapter. I can elaborate on that if need be. I did a fluid change after putting about 500 miles on the swap and the fluid looked good, so I don't have any reason to believe anything's not working as it should. It spins both tires from a dig and will not one-wheel peel in a turn, although I've never driven a non-LSD Goblin for comparison.
I also think the gearing is a little better in the F23. The RPM drop on a flat out 1-2 shift is about 500 rpms shorter on an F23 versus the F35 (for reference, the F40 has a similar 1-2 RPM drop as the F35, and only has a shorter RPM drop than the F23 and F35 on the 3-4 and 4-5 shifts). Second gear is a bit shorter in the F23 versus the F35. If you're starting with an LSJ 4.05 final drive F35, you'll cruise about 150 rpms lower at highway speed. Folks have talked about the HHR 4.17 final drive F23, but in my mind that's really only a big deal if you're running tires taller than 25" (which is Cobalt size).
I started with the bees knees 4.05 LSD/G85 F35 and expect to be able to sell it for much more than the cost of my swap, and if I ever manage to pop this F23 (unlikely, as I understand it's actually a stronger trans) then I should be able to pick another up for a couple hundred bucks. Between LKQ and www.car-part.com it looks like there's at least a couple dozen replacements within 50 miles of me.
OptimizePrime
Goblin Guru
Love to see that!
Rauq
Goblin Guru
Almost forgot I owed this update. There were concerns about the heater core loop being too close to the exhaust, picking up heat, dumping it into the coolant. I said I'd post a pic of my tongue on that hose. Here you go. 100°F outside, fresh blacktop, stop and go at a long line quick cycling intersection, coolant temps as high as they ever get...
