V1 [GUIDE] F35 to F23 (with LSD) Transmission Swap

[Rauq]

For what it's worth I'm running the same South Bend Stage 3 clutch disc and pressure plate, and ZZP aluminum flywheel, that I ran with the F35, now in an F23, with F23 slave cylinder.

 

[Grayson]

The air gap may be correct but if the F23 T/O bearing compresses the F35 pressure plate fingers further in it could contact the clutch hub? This is all speculation on my part as I Do Not have the pieces(even used) to compare clutch stack heights.
Are you using the bell housing spacer plate used on the F35? No "right answer", just for info.
There is also always a possibility the clutch hub/springs gave up? They can be real poop heads and not give 2 weeks notice.

I have been using the bellhousing spacer. Here are my current options:
1. Remove bellhousing spacer and see if it fixes the issue
2. switch to a f35 throwout bearing
3. replace clutch and pressure plate
It seems like one or all of these might fix my issue but would rather not have to do all of these as it takes more time and money to keep tearing the car apart and putting it back together. Any advice on the best option is much appreciated.

 

[Rauq]

I should add, my setup is F23 + the original LSJ-F35 bellhousing spacer + South Bend Stage 3 clutch and PP + ZZP aluminum flywheel

I don't know that air gap or slave cylinder displacement or clutch stack heights explain partial-zero-full clutch engagement through the pedal travel.

Can you elaborate more on the partial engagement at zero pedal push?

 

[OptimizePrime]

Tough to tell without spending a ton of time testing each part. If you want to throw money at it to save some time/effort/frustration, the clutch kit I got was the ceramic Stage 3 from Phoenix Friction and it comes with the alignment tool, throwout bearing, and holds 400whp/tq without an issue. The have an lsj option as well.

04-327.3C Stage 3 Ceramic Clutch Kit: Chevrolet Cobalt SS 2.0L Turbocharged

Shop for Chevrolet clutch kits to fit Chevrolet Cobalt SS with a 2.0L Turbocharged engine. A Chevrolet Cobalt SS Stage 3 Ceramic Clutch Kit includes Pressure Plate, Six paddle Ceramic button Clutch Disc, Slave Cylinder and Release Bearing Assembly, and Alignment Tool. Browse even more Chevrolet...

www.phoenixfriction.com

 

[Grayson]

I should add, my setup is F23 + the original LSJ-F35 bellhousing spacer + South Bend Stage 3 clutch and PP + ZZP aluminum flywheel

I don't know that air gap or slave cylinder displacement or clutch stack heights explain partial-zero-full clutch engagement through the pedal travel.

Can you elaborate more on the partial engagement at zero pedal push?

The partial engagement is a similar feeling to an automatic car letting off the brake and rolling forward. I think im going to buy your same clutch setup and try it. Are you using a bellhousing spacer on your goblin?

 

[Rauq]

Yes.

 

[WA08TC]

Just to clarify all this info. I'm going to be grabbing the f23 from DF for my previous F35 LNF. Do I need anything extra or can I use;
1.Current flywheel and clutch(f35)
2.Do I need the spacer?
3.Use the f23 slave or swap in my f35.
4. Anything special for the clutch pipe/elbow or use my current one.

 

[newbtrying]

Finally getting around to the rear suspension and hubs and I ran into an incompatibility issue. The hubs are too small to accept the axle splines.

The axles are 2000 Grand Am (30 spline).
The wheel hubs are purchased from DF Kit Car and are the 5x114.3 non-turbocharged option (33 spline).

I am getting lost in the sauce of should the 2000 have been compatible with the 2007 cobalt SS hubs? Did I need to swap to LNF hubs? Do I need to swap knuckle and LNF hubs? Do I need to swap to lower control arm, knuckle, and LNF hubs?

Should I have gotten the turbocharged DF Kit Car hub options?

Trying to figure out where I made a mistake, so I’m reaching out for help here.

 

[BSinvestments]

Finally getting around to the rear suspension and hubs and I ran into an incompatibility issue. The hubs are too small to accept the axle splines.

View attachment 55377

View attachment 55378

View attachment 55379

The axles are 2000 Grand Am (30 spline).
The wheel hubs are purchased from DF Kit Car and are the 5x114.3 non-turbocharged option (33 spline).

I am getting lost in the sauce of should the 2000 have been compatible with the 2007 cobalt SS hubs? Did I need to swap to LNF hubs? Do I need to swap knuckle and LNF hubs? Do I need to swap to lower control arm, knuckle, and LNF hubs?

Should I have gotten the turbocharged DF Kit Car hub options?

Trying to figure out where I made a mistake, so I’m reaching out for help here.

I used na cobalt axles.

 

[newbtrying]

I used na cobalt axles.

what knuckles and what hub paired with those?

 

[BSinvestments]

what knuckles and what hub paired with those?

I have the df 5x114.3 hubs

 

[WA08TC]

I have the LNF knuckles and the DF 5/114 hubs. 2000 Grand Am axles if that helps.

 

[WA08TC]

Finally getting around to the rear suspension and hubs and I ran into an incompatibility issue. The hubs are too small to accept the axle splines.

View attachment 55377

View attachment 55378

View attachment 55379

The axles are 2000 Grand Am (30 spline).
The wheel hubs are purchased from DF Kit Car and are the 5x114.3 non-turbocharged option (33 spline).

I am getting lost in the sauce of should the 2000 have been compatible with the 2007 cobalt SS hubs? Did I need to swap to LNF hubs? Do I need to swap knuckle and LNF hubs? Do I need to swap to lower control arm, knuckle, and LNF hubs?

Should I have gotten the turbocharged DF Kit Car hub options?

Trying to figure out where I made a mistake, so I’m reaching out for help here.

Seems to do the Grand Am axle swap you need the LNF Hubs. Unless I am incorrect.

 

[Dale E]

The Grand AM hub should be a 30 spline count. The Cobalt is a 33 spline count except for I believe the Turbo model which was a 30 spline??

 

[Rauq]

LNF hubs only fit in LNF knuckles, non-LNF hubs only fit non-LNF hubs. LNF hubs will only take LNF half shafts with an F35 transmission, and I'm not an expert in the F23 swap but I think Grand Am half shafts only go with an F23 trans and LNF hubs in LNF knuckles.

With non-LNF hubs you can run all non-LNF Cobalt parts, no Grand Am parts needed. I believe brakes are knuckle specific as well but the only difference should be the caliper bracket adapter.

 

[newbtrying]

LNF hubs only fit in LNF knuckles, non-LNF hubs only fit non-LNF hubs. LNF hubs will only take LNF half shafts with an F35 transmission, and I'm not an expert in the F23 swap but I think Grand Am half shafts only go with an F23 trans and LNF hubs in LNF knuckles.

With non-LNF hubs you can run all non-LNF Cobalt parts, no Grand Am parts needed. I believe brakes are knuckle specific as well but the only difference should be the caliper bracket adapter.

Yes, I have non-LNF knuckles and hubs. I also have the 30-spline Grand-Am axles that require the LNF knuckles and hubs. Ok, now I understand the issue and compatibilities.

Now that I am finally following, and since I seem to need it spelled out entirely, I want to rephrase what I'm hearing the solution to be: I need to buy NA cobalt R&L Axles plus the NA cobalt intermediate shaft (?) and these will fit in both the F23 transmission and the non-LNF (33 spline) hubs I have?

Here's a link to an axle set for a manual 2005-2010 cobalt 2.2L Can anyone confirm this is the part I need before I purchase? My quick research shows these have the 33 spline shaft that is compatible with my hubs.

The axle set linked above has one long axle (passenger) and one short (driver), so it would not require the intermediate shaft. That's one less part I'd have to locate and purchase, so I see it as a positive. Does anyone have an argument for why I should get the intermediate shaft and the set of two short axles?

Also, Here's some more photos of my current build stalled out at the hub installation stage. Notice the one long and one short Grand Am (incompatible) axles currently installed in my F23 transmission and the non-LNF knuckles and hubs.

 

[jirwin]

Can't speak to compatibility, but if you are using 2.2 F23 axles I would probably upgrade to these.

ZZP 4340 Axles - 2.2/2.4 Ecotec

We are proud to introduce our new line of ZZPerformance 4340 axles. Built Stronger. Balanced Smoother. Engineered Smarter. ZZPerformance axles are designed from the ground up to outperform both OEM and aftermarket alternatives. Every detail, from material selection to surface finish is...

zzperformance.com

I haven't had a chance to try em myself, but I already snapped some OEM ones before (albeit drag racing)

 

[Rauq]

Yes, I have non-LNF knuckles and hubs. I also have the 30-spline Grand-Am axles that require the LNF knuckles and hubs. Ok, now I understand the issue and compatibilities.

Now that I am finally following, and since I seem to need it spelled out entirely, I want to rephrase what I'm hearing the solution to be: I need to buy NA cobalt R&L Axles plus the NA cobalt intermediate shaft (?) and these will fit in both the F23 transmission and the non-LNF (33 spline) hubs I have?

Here's a link to an axle set for a manual 2005-2010 cobalt 2.2L Can anyone confirm this is the part I need before I purchase? My quick research shows these have the 33 spline shaft that is compatible with my hubs.

The axle set linked above has one long axle (passenger) and one short (driver), so it would not require the intermediate shaft. That's one less part I'd have to locate and purchase, so I see it as a positive. Does anyone have an argument for why I should get the intermediate shaft and the set of two short axles?

Base model manual trans Cobalt axles don't have an intermediate shaft, so yes, the set you linked should work.

Maybe I'm on borrowed time but I've been running some random not expensive axles I got from Rockauto. I don't remember the brand, and I'm making decent power.

 

[WA08TC]

Can't speak to compatibility, but if you are using 2.2 F23 axles I would probably upgrade to these.

ZZP 4340 Axles - 2.2/2.4 Ecotec

We are proud to introduce our new line of ZZPerformance 4340 axles. Built Stronger. Balanced Smoother. Engineered Smarter. ZZPerformance axles are designed from the ground up to outperform both OEM and aftermarket alternatives. Every detail, from material selection to surface finish is...

zzperformance.com

I haven't had a chance to try em myself, but I already snapped some OEM ones before (albeit drag racing)

Now we just need 4340 Grand Am axles. Won't hold my breath.

 

[newbtrying]

Can't speak to compatibility, but if you are using 2.2 F23 axles I would probably upgrade to these.

ZZP 4340 Axles - 2.2/2.4 Ecotec

We are proud to introduce our new line of ZZPerformance 4340 axles. Built Stronger. Balanced Smoother. Engineered Smarter. ZZPerformance axles are designed from the ground up to outperform both OEM and aftermarket alternatives. Every detail, from material selection to surface finish is...

zzperformance.com

I haven't had a chance to try em myself, but I already snapped some OEM ones before (albeit drag racing)

just to tie up loose ends, I installed these axles and that solved my issue.