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V1 NRG vs 9Lives
SmsDetroit
Goblin Guru
- SmsDetroit Goblin Guru
I think the 9Lives will give you useful downforce but the NRG looks way better in my opinion
Desert Sasqwatch
Bigfoot Goblin
- Desert Sasqwatch Bigfoot Goblin
Alternate 'big' wing source - sold in 60", 65" and 70" widths.
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Desert Sasqwatch
Bigfoot Goblin
- Desert Sasqwatch Bigfoot Goblin
This wing requires some fabrication to weld on the mounts and drill the adjustment holes - but yes it's significantly cheaper than comparable wings. The side plates can be ordered separately or can be made from 3/16 or thicker aluminum plate to the size you would like. Just put this out there for consideration to anyone wanting to save some $$ who can DIY the mounts and end plates.
OptimizePrime
Goblin Guru
- OptimizePrime Goblin Guru
Here's his website: https://wing-logic.com/
- Chubbs Well-Known Member
I'm also curious about this, if anyone has any info. I have read, I think on the nine lives website, the bigger end plates increases downforce. Neither the engineer or the pilot in me has any idea why.
If bigger end plates increased downforce (just lift, but in reverse) then why doesn't every airplane ever made have gigantic side plates on the end? Sure, some have little winglets, but those are for wingtip vortices, not for increasing lift.
I also have no idea why a gurney flap works. Vehicle aero seems to be more magic than science sometimes.
Desert Sasqwatch
Bigfoot Goblin
- Desert Sasqwatch Bigfoot Goblin
Gurney flap info, from the team who invented it:
Essentially it increases the high pressure above the wing and creates a vacuum behind the rear edge of the wing to pull the air below it faster. This combination creates greater downforce - in simplest terms - without a large increase in drag.
Essentially it increases the high pressure above the wing and creates a vacuum behind the rear edge of the wing to pull the air below it faster. This combination creates greater downforce - in simplest terms - without a large increase in drag.
TravMac
Well-Known Member
- TravMac Well-Known Member
Working on analysis as a day job (Structural, not fluid... but it applies), I can tell you that there's a lot of basic understanding out there, but the magic is in the details of numbers. I think seeing comments like "CFD tested" are funny because you can test a cow using software, and not really learn anything until you put it in context. Nine-lives has always been great for sharing those on the airfoil itself, and I think that is pretty cool to try and understand your car a bit better. Other wings don't necessarily give the data, and that's just not what some tinkerers want.
Now I'm sure the endplates have some details which also have small percentage increase in either efficiency or downforce, but it's probably not something you or I would notice over the wing in it's entirety. That being said... of course I ordered them because gotta have the pretty thing they sell. Most of the time, they just wiggle around back there because I think they lack enough stiffness... but again, they look cool. Gurney flaps are actually quantified in their effectiveness for the nine-lives analysis too, so that may help your understanding some more.
Desert Sasqwatch
Bigfoot Goblin
- Desert Sasqwatch Bigfoot Goblin
Speaking of CFD testing for a cow, was sent this to let me know my anti-green Jeep Rubicon is the bane of the tree-huggers and climate change crowd...save gas, drive a cow.
Metal Mech
Well-Known Member
- Metal Mech Well-Known Member
I find this funny because back in my day (yep I said it) you didn’t buy a jeep for speed. You bought it for going slow off-road.
min fact I was lucky if I could get my to go 65 on the highway. Uphill it struggled to do 55 haha.
ah.b.normal
Goblin Guru
- ah.b.normal Goblin Guru
A friend that flew small aircraft said he often surveyed the cows in the fields on approach to reckon prevailing wind direction. Apparently cows try to face into the wind, prolly a herd instinct as it would carry any predator smells from upwind of their location. Funny, cows have cow sense and horses have horse sense, both peculiar and specific. I also drive a basically stock 17 COW(Jeep, Wrangler) 6speed! I've had it up to 85 on a highway, down hill, accidentally. It was not confidence inspiring. BUT she took on the Alpine Loop out of Silverton, CO last September. There were places where 2mph was too fast! Much 4 whl low! But she pulled us through with nary a hic-up, and many places did not look very promising! Engineer Pass at 12,000 ft. I was wishing I was on a motorcycle. For some jobs Aerodynamics ain't the be all and end all, but approach and departure angles rule.
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jcdman
Well-Known Member
- jcdman Well-Known Member
I got the wing logic aluminum wing for my car and install wasn't too terrible. I had to pay someone to weld the mounts on but I ended up fabricated some larger carbon fiber end plates.
Aero engineer here, so here's my opinion on endplates. Larger endplates themselves do not create downforce, however, they can reduce Drag and make a wing more efficient/stable
Drag is comprised of two types: parasitic (air interacting with the object) and induced (byproduct of lift). You can therefore reduce drag by making the surface smoother to reduce parasitic drag, or by reducing wing-tip vortices with an endplate. By reducing the vortices affect on the lower surface of the wing, it becomes more efficient, ergo "more" downforce and less induced drag. Here's a crude drawing to help visualize.
In short, differing pressure on either sides of a wing come crashing together at a wing's edge. Endplates mitigate the harsh collision and make wings more efficient.
Aero engineer here, so here's my opinion on endplates. Larger endplates themselves do not create downforce, however, they can reduce Drag and make a wing more efficient/stable
Drag is comprised of two types: parasitic (air interacting with the object) and induced (byproduct of lift). You can therefore reduce drag by making the surface smoother to reduce parasitic drag, or by reducing wing-tip vortices with an endplate. By reducing the vortices affect on the lower surface of the wing, it becomes more efficient, ergo "more" downforce and less induced drag. Here's a crude drawing to help visualize.
In short, differing pressure on either sides of a wing come crashing together at a wing's edge. Endplates mitigate the harsh collision and make wings more efficient.
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OptimizePrime
Goblin Guru
- OptimizePrime Goblin Guru
Respect, but long story short are they worth the extra $$? I get worth is subjective but are there material gains that even the layman can appreciate
