V1 Sluggonaut's Extended Track #364 - 2007 SS/SC (Turbo) Donor

[Sluggonaut]

Turbo swap doesn't change anything though, it just replaces the blower with an adapter so cooling system stays the same.
The part of the diagram that says "to heat exchanger" means the A2W heat exchanger provided by DF in the kit.

Well, there's still a heat exchanger up front, so there's still an extra piece to the diagram - the A2W intercooler gets added in there somewhere with the intake and heat exchanger, I just wasn't sure where to put it in the circuit.

 

[Gtstorey]

The Intercooler is integral on the LSJ.

 

[Fozda]

Well, there's still a heat exchanger up front, so there's still an extra piece to the diagram - the A2W intercooler gets added in there somewhere with the intake and heat exchanger, I just wasn't sure where to put it in the circuit.

Do you have an additional cooler to install?

 

[Sluggonaut]

Your problem is that you’re trying to include 2 A2W intercoolers in your intake path. The one included in the DF kit can be forgone as the LSJ intake has the laminova cores in it for the A2W intercooling.

I'm not sure I want to do that, as I paid more for my kit because it included the A2W and I also paid to have it powder coated. lol

I figured this was already defined and mapped out as Adam knew exactly what I needed when I explained my donor setup, but I'm not finding much info on it.

If you forgo the DF A2W intercooler, you’d just run a silicon piece off the turbo inlet to the MAF tube from DF to a filter (simplified as you may need some additional silicon turns and solid tubing).

If you want to run both A2W intercoolers, then you can run the cooling loop in series or parallel. Although I would think that the stock pump would be overwhelmed trying to pull that much fluid from 2 A2W intercoolers and trying to push it to the single heat exchanger.

I figured the extra capacity was required but also had concern over the pump being able to handle it. I think if it were run in parallel, you'd be better off running 2 systems - hard pass. If it's run in series, I think the pump stands a better chance but I'd question the efficiency of running to intercoolers in series. I'm no expert on this, but I would think it would not be as efficient as running a single circuit with one intercooler or 2 separate circuits.

 

[Sluggonaut]

Do you have an additional cooler to install?

No, I was asked for my donor config and I received a hybrid kit that has some of the components from the turbo kit including the A2W intercooler. It seemed like a normal thing when I discussed it with Adam at the time, but I am now to that point in assembly and I have questions. Not finding many answers though.

It's going to be a tough pill to swallow if I don't need all the extra stuff I paid for and had coated.

 

[Gtstorey]

It would be hard to determine how much cooling would would be done by each IC in parallel. You would have to at least determine if the pressure drop across was at least similar. If the difference is to great there wouldn't be much water water running through the one with the high pressure loss. You would likely be better off to increase pumping power and run in series.

I would be concerned about Boost loss across two intercoolers. Maybe it's possible to remove the stock IC.

 

[r3drckt]

I think the loss in translation was the Turbo swapped LSJ. Adam may have been assuming a traditional turbo swap instead of the zzp intro swap which reuses the LSJ intake, vs a traditional swap would have a standalone intake.

In any case, you have a few options:
Option 1- ditch the DF A2W cooler
Run the dual pass and stock LSJ intake as displayed by the ZZP diagram.

Option 2- ditch the LSJ intake
Purchase an NA intake or an aftermarket turbo swap LSJ intake. Zzp offers one as well as OTTP and other companies.

Option 3- run them both
From the pump outlet, go in the middle LSJ dual pass port (the intake port), then from the 2 outlet ports, go to a 3 barb on the outer posts, and the middle you’d then plumb to the DF A2W cooler inlet, from the outlet port, go to the heat exchanger, then back to the IC pump.

I’d suggest option 3 as it doesn’t cost you any more money and you get to use everything. I’d opt for the high output zzp IC pump for this setup, but the stock pump may be enough.

From there, you can switch between option 3 to option 1 as it doesn’t cost you anything additional. Compare your intake temps between both options and see if the dual A2W was worth it. If it wasn’t, stick with Option 1…. Or:

Go buy a standard aftermarket intake like the OTTP one and run the DF A2W since you had it powdered already and it looks sweet.

 

[Rttoys]

I’m in the “run 2 coolers” camp. Down here in Texas, all we do is deal with heat. If you have almost everything for both coolers, I’d run them both. One ic up front and one in the back. 2 separate systems.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

If you go with @r3drckt's option 3 and use the dual coolers - which are in series for the boost air from the turbo - and you run the coolant flow in series, it is best to have the coolest fluid in contact with the last part of the intercooler system before going into the engine. This is my opinion based on thermodynamic properties.

After the coolant leaves your heat exchanger(s) it should pass through the laminova tubes first then flow into the A2W intercooler. The logic in this is the coldest coolant is in contact with the last intercooled air. The mildly warm coolant leaving the laminova tubes will flow to the hotter A2W and capture the initial heat from the turbo outlet air taking the hottest coolant back to the heat exchanger(s).

If it is routed the other way, with the coldest coolant meeting the hottest boost air first, the A2W intercooler will heat the coolant to most likely a temperature much closer to the boost air that is arriving in the laminova tubes. There will be very little secondary cooling from the laminova tubes before the boost air enters the engine.

The first set up - laminova to A2W - has a physical separation of the available BTUs being exchanged in the system. The second set up will tend to 'share' the BTUs - A2W to laminova - and be less efficient at removing BTUs.

All of this is mute if you choose to run the A2W and laminova tubes in parallel. I would also recommend that the heat exchanger(s) used matches or exceeds the 'cubic inches' of the intercooler and laminova tubes. If I remember correctly, the DF A2W is about 120 cu.in. and the laminova tubes (guessing) about 90 cu.in. So the heat exchanger should be at least 210 cu.in. (2x9x12ish) to have adequate heat rejection.

Sorry if this long winded, but trying to get you the information that should help with your decision.

 

[Sluggonaut]

If you go with @r3drckt's option 3 and use the dual coolers - which are in series for the boost air from the turbo - and you run the coolant flow in series, it is best to have the coolest fluid in contact with the last part of the intercooler system before going into the engine. This is my opinion based on thermodynamic properties.

If I remember correctly, the DF A2W is about 120 cu.in. and the laminova tubes (guessing) about 90 cu.in. So the heat exchanger should be at least 210 cu.in. (2x9x12ish) to have adequate heat rejection.

I appreciate the detailed input DS. While I do not have any formal thermodynamic education, your explanation articulated my concern in running the systems in series. Having the circuit go from heat exchanger to the intake first makes sense with the A2W second in line before returning to the HE.

You mentioned my second concern with running a single circuit in series and that is HE capacity. Would you happen to know the cubes on the DF supplied HE? If it's not sufficient, I would probably opt to run 2 systems in parallel with another HE in the hoop above/behind the driver's seat. I'd just have to figure out where to mount another pump.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

I opted to go with my own intercooler system for my TC build, so I don't have the dimensions of the DF supplied heat exchanger. Knowing that Lonny would understand the necessity to match the heat exchanger capacity to the intercooler, I believe it is at least the same or great - my guesstimate was about 120 cu.in. If you were running your coolant in series, and with added laminova tubes heat sinking capacity of (another guesstimate) of 90 cu.in. the DF heat exchanger could be a little too small. But this is also dependent upon you local temperature you plan to drive in - it may be adequate if you live further north, not so much if you live in the desert like I do. Hopefully some of this can help you with your decision. If all else fails, call Lonny and I'm certain he can provide his expertise to this decision too.

 

[Sluggonaut]

I still have one last hurdle to get over before I can start bolting in the engine. I've talked with Adam (who was right as usual) and messaged a few other members here about my issue, but it seems my thermostat housing is not original. However, between pics of parts and Identifix there are a couple of versions of the correct part, neither of which match mine.

I plan to rectify this at some point, but in staying true to my plan of not making any mods until I know the harness is good and I can accomplish the first start in Goblin trim I am going to make this work.

The 2 inlets in the pic below are where the oil cooler hoses should go according to what I see in Identifix.

I've seen other diagrams that match other pics of parts I've seen in which only one hose goes to the tstat housing with the other one going somewhere else:

My problem is that the only inlet on my car is from the radiator. The right side of the oil cooler was connected to the heater pipe closest to the inlet (driver's side when in Cobalt form) and I disconnected the left side oil cooler hose without labeling or capturing a complete view in my pictures. The one hose I do have left over with no place to go, would put the left oil cooler hose somewhere around the heater core connection on the firewall.

This project is my only experience with the LSJ and I have no idea how the coolant flows in these things. At this point, this makes sense only from the standpoint of it accounts for all my hoses. What doesn't make sense is this means the oil cooler is either right before or after the heater core depending on which way the coolant flows. Neither case would be ideal for an oil cooler. I believe the tstat housing with 2 inlet ports sends coolant to the oil cooler first right after it comes out of the radiator - makes total sense.

The bottom line is, I need to know how to plumb in the oil cooler during the heater core removal step. I didn't really notice the issue until I had to remove the hose to the oil cooler to install my loopback hose as shown in the video. If what I suspect is true, then I would just need to put the right oil cooler port hose back where it was (driver's side heater pipe) and then run the left oil cooler port hose to the right heater pipe.

This seems very strange, but the car was running with this goofy tstat housing before tear down with no cooling issues, so this should get me through the first start. I would love it if anyone who knows how the coolant flows in the LSJ can point out any issues with closing the loop this way or suggest a better or correct solution.

Here are the pics of my car during tear down and where we are at currently...

This is the bugger right here. This hose goes back and to the right of the rad hose which is connected to the only inlet on my tstat housing. The hose that makes the big arch is the other oil cooler hose and it connects to the driver's side heater pipe on the tstat housing:

I have the loopback hose installed on the heater pipes in this pic, but I put the right oil cooler hose where it was originally and attached the only hose I have leftover and it runs to about where the heater core connections were located:

 

[Gtstorey]

On the LNF the heater hose is looped in the back. The front oil cooler hose is connected to a tee fitting of the radiator hose. Rear connector of the cooler is connected to the thermostat housing, with a tee in between to go to the coolant reservoir.. Only 1 small connector and 1 radiator connector on the thermostat housing.

 

[Sluggonaut]

On the LNF the heater hose is looped in the back. The front oil cooler hose is connected to a tee fitting of the radiator hose. Rear connector of the cooler is connected to the thermostat housing, with a tee in between to go to the coolant reservoir.. Only 1 small connector and 1 radiator connector on the thermostat housing.

Thanks!

This looks like it can all be plumbed in later and doesn't need to be addressed before engine install, unlike the dual-pass and option B plumbing that looks like it would be a pain, if not impossible, once the powertrain is mounted.

 

[Sluggonaut]

As soon as I get an extra hand to lift the chassis over the powertrain later today, this thing will be bolted up and another step closer to the attempt at first start.

 

[Mahkoi]

As soon as I get an extra hand to lift the chassis over the powertrain later today, this thing will be bolted up and another step closer to the attempt at first start.

View attachment 31451

I was able to get it by myself. Jacked the back end up and slid the engine in at an angle then straightened it out once it got far enough in to get past the skinny part in the rear. Two people would have been way easier but I'm not patient and my friends were busy. Make sure your jack stands are as far back as you can otherwise it can get a little tippy.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

I was able to get it by myself. Jacked the back end up and slid the engine in at an angle then straightened it out once it got far enough in to get past the skinny part in the rear. Two people would have been way easier but I'm not patient and my friends were busy. Make sure your jack stands are as far back as you can otherwise it can get a little tippy.

Or put some extra weight in the nose to compensate.

 

[r3drckt]

Or put some extra weight in the nose to compensate.

I went this route, fully assembled the front end with wheels and brakes to put all the weight up front I could.

 

[Waterdriver]

As soon as I get an extra hand to lift the chassis over the powertrain later today, this thing will be bolted up and another step closer to the attempt at first start.

View attachment 31451

Are your garage door rail mounts above your car?
I had used tie down straps hooked to the door rail mounts and to each side of rear of the chassis.
Lift a chassis side and pull a strap. Go to other side and do the same to get it high enough.
Roll the drivetrain underneath.
Then your can lower the chassis slowly. Having it suspended to get mount holes lined up and put in, makes it super easy.

 

[Sluggonaut]

It took a couple of tries with the dual-pass plumbing shortened the first time and then completely removed the second time before the powertrain went in.

Next on the list is reconfiguring the dual-pass plumbing.