Comment on Safety.

socaljeff3798

Well-Known Member
Some of you have seen that I purchased a Goblin that had been crashed. The good news is Doug and his daughter walked away with just bumps and bruises. This had a great outcome. Cars can be fixed. This was due in large part to having quality seats and belts in the car. They did their job. I have been involved with racing for over 40 yeas and seen too many hurt and even killed even with the best equipment. Just please make sure and always have your belts on even if its just a "test drive" down the street. Yes I have know people killed with a stuck throttle. These thing are a blast but like any motorsports toy they can be deadly and it only takes a second that you can never undo or get back. Dont skimp on your safety.
Sorry for the soap box but just a friendly reminder. Look at the picture and you get an idea...This was on the street not the track...slick road hit a pole you see what damage that can do...Look at the steering wheel!.
 

Brett

Well-Known Member
The color has nothing to do with it. ;)

To reiterate socaljeff, safety equipment is key. The frame is extremely strong and protects its occupants well, especially the track frame (full cage) in a beyond design basis accident. However, using 5 point harnesses adds significantly to the safety factor. The ER was amazed that I didn't have internal injuries in my torso section.

My Graphite Charcoal frame is insulted being called dark grey. :p Ironically, I am planning on an orange (Just Orange, Prismatic Powders) frame when I rebuild. o_O For me, that is a vote of confidence in orange. I decided to change colors since it will be a little more visible on the road.

Brett
 

G Atsma

Goblin Guru
It looked to me most of the crumpling took place in front of that, or just bent a bit to the side, which legs can handle
 

Lndshrk Steve

Well-Known Member
A little more than my two cents . . .

I've spent many years on tracks driving/instructing with mid engine cars. They inherently have understeer/push due to their light front ends. (It is very common for one mechanic to just pick up the front end of a formula car.) This causes some of the problems discussed here.

If you are on frame #300 something and can rattle off 3 or 4 known crashes on the street (and these are probably limited use vehicles), this is not acceptable. I've seen YouTube builds where the guy hardly knows which end of a hammer to hold and evidently they have the same skill at driving. Don't feel bad. I've seen guys with Ferraris that don't know much more than “pointy end forward and rubber side down”.

80% of the people think they are above average drivers. You mathematicians know that can't be right.

There are three main parts to a corner. The turn in, the apex and the exit edge. The turn in should be the slowest part of the corner ESPECIALLY in street driving. In cornering, like anything in life, the sooner you recognize you've made a mistake, the smaller the correction necessary. Fix it BEFORE the apex, not at the exit edge.

The techniques we use on the track are the same ones we use on the street, but the opposite side of the coin. On the track we want to stay right at the limit and on the street we want to stay as far away from the limit as possible. Remember, you can read and learn a lot about driving, but “knowing how is not the same as doing”.

Please, stay safe out there.
 

socaljeff3798

Well-Known Member
Well said Steve. Its a car to enjoy on the street. If you want to be Ricky racer go do track days. Just because you can drive these cars stupid fast on the doesn't mean you should! I am building one because I think they are diffent, fun and a conversation piece. Like you Steve I have a Super Vee in my shop that is deadly fast. Why dont I drive it? It is far faster than me. At 63 soon to be 64 I am just too **** young to die or do sheet time. My 2 cents.
 

TheNuker

Goblin Guru
If I remember correctly one commonality do the cars that have crashed is not running 100 treadware R compound tires, I believe at least a couple have been running 300+ treadware tires. I've said it before that I think these light powerful cars as a matter of safety need the stickiest tires.

I got over 6k miles out of my R888rs on my first goblin so you can't say its not going to last on the street.

Nuker-
 

ccannx

Goblin Guru
It almost should be mandatory that you get a few autocrosses under your belt in it. Its a lot of car to handle at any level. Maybe we should come out with a checklist for newly completed kits, things to do before you go out on the road maybe a separate one for autocross /track.
IE:
1) seatbelts and a helmet (preferably with a HANS device).
2) Alignment / complete car safety check (suspension, lug-nuts, brakes bled, battery tied down)
3) Get yourself in the right mental space/check ego-If there is anything within 25' and you goose it what will be the outcome of you hitting it.
4) Car/medical insurance
 

escapepilot

Goblin Guru
It almost should be mandatory that you get a few autocrosses under your belt in it. Its a lot of car to handle at any level. Maybe we should come out with a checklist for newly completed kits, things to do before you go out on the road maybe a separate one for autocross /track.
IE:
1) seatbelts and a helmet (preferably with a HANS device).
2) Alignment / complete car safety check (suspension, lug-nuts, brakes bled, battery tied down)
3) Get yourself in the right mental space/check ego-If there is anything within 25' and you goose it what will be the outcome of you hitting it.
4) Car/medical insurance
That’s a pretty good idea. The experimental aircraft community has a thorough checklist to go through before that first flight including requiring a inspection by an outside party to make sure everything is done correctly. They also highly encourage the use of a written plan to verify the aircraft performance in a deliberate, safe as possible manner.

Maybe DFKC or the community could develop a checklist of items to double check before taking it out on the road. Additionally, a list of what to expect in handling and performance AND what to check if the performance isn’t meeting those expectations could be highly beneficial. Since I’m still waiting on my chassis, I don’t have enough knowledge to compile a list, but there is a ton of experience in this forum.

A couple of suggestions (and if they prove useful, make it a sticky):

Pre first drive checklist (brake function, fluid levels, properly torqued bolts, safety items, etc)

First drive plan (what to do before getting up to highway speed and BEFORE taking a passenger)

Expanding the performance envelope and what to expect when you go to far.
 

SACTX

Well-Known Member
My 2 pennies for the group.

The Houston crew has been working on a checklist for new builds and an ongoing checklist for upkeep. I think Russell has the list and we keep adding to it as we find things. Maybe he'll be able to post it soon and get it stickied somewhere.

For the new guys, take this to heart. This car is like nothing you've ever driven. There is nothing like it on the street. Everything you've ever learned about driving is not going to 100% transfer to this car. Go faster, slowly. As you build up the power, with engine and computer upgrades, it gets really crazy. Like ridiculously fast. Each car is different and you really need to slowly test the cars limits, hopefully on a track or autocross.

DF produces an amazing frame, home build guide, forum, build experience, and ultimately a great driving experience. Inherent in taking parts from one car to another car and using them in a different configuration, are some design challenges by using parts that are being pushed in different ways. Suspension geometries going from front to back, throttle maps and computer programs that are made for a 3,000lb FWD car used in a 1,500-1,700lb RWD car, and different build configurations and requirements all add to the challenges each builder faces. Those challenges and decisions make each car different and the driving experience different. What works for one, will not work for another. Learn YOUR car.

My car has got a light front end, relatively heavy weight (~1,700lbs), relatively high (~310-320) hp, and its the short wheelbase. These factors make it push a little at low speeds but go to snap oversteer if I push the rear tires too far. This is even with my sticky 335 width tires. The rear normally comes around faster than I can react if I hit the throttle ramp that's built into the programming and overload the rear tires (working on fixing this). It comes out of nowhere. I'm learning it but it's been over 2k miles and 3 autocrosses.

The limits of the car are WAY over what anyone should be doing on the streets. My max g loads have been 1.8g lateral, 1.6g braking, 1.4g acceleration at an Autocross where the top speed is around 60mph. The car is still capable of more, a lot more. It's sooooo much fun but it's a little crazy.

I feel that this car is very safe, but you need to learn your car before pushing it. And check every nut and bolt multiple times. Especially after finishing your build and driving a little. Always wear your seatbelt and get a 5-point if you can.
 
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