Coolant leak between engine and trans!?!?

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Oh no! Assuming the second head gasket (and probably the first too) is installed correctly, yeah there has to be an internal leak inside the engine. It's either a slow leak in the block - that took a short while to get into the oil pan - or a big leak in the head - that started when your fluid level got to that point.

If you don't rotate the engine at all, pulling the cylinder head - again sorry - hopefully you can see if any of the pistons or cylinder walls are wet. Will give an indication of which area to start looking for a crack in the cylinder head or cylinder wall for that piston. If nothing looks wet, then the leak is most likely in the bottom of the block - possibly a cylinder liner to block.

 

[Gtstorey]

Cracked block or porosity in the cylinder wall. The foam cast LNF suffered from porosity issues.

I think you are going to have to remove the engine the same way it came out, through the bottom, engine, trans, and subframe. You should be able to remove the axels and leave the suspension though.

 

[Ross]

You might be able to pull just the engine... it is real tight in the DF frame. You might have to lower the subframe 4" to give you more room, but you can leave the clutch, transmission cables etc, on, and still lower it that much.
In 2020, I replaced my clutch. In 2021, I replaced my transmission, both times I removed the 4 bolts from the rear subframe. I left the rear swingarms and axles on the subframe, and lifted the DF frame up and over the engine. I spent more time draining the coolant, removing the electrical, brakes, clutch and transmission cables.

 

[Sluggonaut]

I used that method and found the engine hoist bar from Summit very handy. I agree with Ross that coolant and all the disconnects were more work than separating the subframe/chassis.

I reassembled everything a couple of weeks back and can confirm the rear maintained its alignment using this method.

 

[ah.b.normal]

This is a bad idea but it is an idea. Source another head. Since it leaks without running all you will have in it is time and a head gasket and bolts. You could install the head in frame. Don't even finish timing gear/chain, loosen up and remove cams and rockers, install the head and fill 'er up. You'll get your answer quick.

 

[Gtstorey]

Might could try some uv coolant dye and see if that will show up on tear down, but you would have to be careful to get all of the coolant out before tear down.

 

[ah.b.normal]

If it doesn't leak keep assembling. I must admit I am having second thoughts about my bad idea. It may waste time and a gasket and bolts because your system has contaminated the bearings with coolant all through the oil system. Add to that the very novel "leaking out of the bellhousing" which is quite peculiar and points to a very unusual problem! I admit it is a bad idea but it is your time spent. I don't believe installing a good head and leaking would hurt that head so at least you are not destroying that known good head but it is likely you'll be "The Goblin Owner with Two Heads".***** I heartily agree that with the amount of labor involved installing a low mi used motor or new/rebuilt motor is my actual recommendation. Though not the cheapest alternative it has the advantage of an almost "insured" positive outcome. Some sellers even offer a warranty with labor cost $ coverage as well. (I wish this was an N/A 2.2, I would give you one. But these are in GA, too far away!)

 

[PHENDERSON]

I'm going the route of replacing the engine. I'm done with this one. I have been working on this goblin for over 2 years now, last 1.5 specifically trying to fix the engine, and I haven't even got to drive it yet.

 

[Robinjo]

Unfortunately, in the end that might be the best option.

 

[ah.b.normal]

Fighting the engine for 1.5 years! I know the feeling well, things can stretch on and on if you don't work on it every day. I helped a Goblin owner bring his project to completion today. He got his first drive today! He can only work on it maybe two days a week and each day only about 5 hours. He had stalled and life got hectic with jobs and kids and I think he moved in the middle of this project as well. It sat for many moons. I walked in his door on July 15 and we started to get a serious handle on what was not completed, what's missing, ETC. Today that Goblin Left the comfort of it's cocoon and he drove it around the block a couple of times; no papers and insurance yet. But It DRIVES! He is a Very Happy Man! You'll get there too! It's gonna take some more patience. I would still like to know how coolant is getting from the water jacket to the the area inside the bellhousing. You filled the coolant with the oil plug out so I know the level in the oil pan never got high enough to go out the rear main seal!

 

[PHENDERSON]

Can you pour coolant directly into the engine, where I believe is the hot side. It's the hose connection on the passenger side up high just under the valve cover. It seems to only leak when I do this so maybe I better check that I'm not doing something stupid here. I filled the reservoir until it wouldn't drain anymore, bleed the air out of the front radiator and get a little more out of the reservoir. Then to make sure the system is completely full I filled the passenger side hose and directly into the engine where that hose is connected. Seems to me it should be a close system so this shouldn't matter but I better verify. Anyone?

 

[Scott #321]

Your assumption is correct. regardless of where you add the coolant to the cooling system it should not be going into the crankcase or the bell housing. from the direction of this thread I would recommend removal of the engine and complete tear down. If you don't see anything you can have the block and head checked at a machine shop for cracks but from the quantity of coolant I would assume the issue will be obvious. It is an imperfect world where people make mistakes. I have personally uncrated a freshly rebuilt motor to put into a customers car and through the front cover location could see a crack in the cylinder liner large enough to see the piston location and this was from a local engine shop with a pretty good reputation for quality work.

 

[Vwsaabvt]

Can you pour coolant directly into the engine, where I believe is the hot side. It's the hose connection on the passenger side up high just under the valve cover. It seems to only leak when I do this so maybe I better check that I'm not doing something stupid here. I filled the reservoir until it wouldn't drain anymore, bleed the air out of the front radiator and get a little more out of the reservoir. Then to make sure the system is completely full I filled the passenger side hose and directly into the engine where that hose is connected. Seems to me it should be a close system so this shouldn't matter but I better verify. Anyone?

Stupid question, you don't have your hose from that location attached to your pcv hose do you?

 

[Gtstorey]

Stupid question, you don't have your hose from that location attached to your pcv hose do you?

Yes, we need a picture of where your hoses are attached and where you are adding water.

 

[PHENDERSON]

No, hose goes through the frame to the radiator up front.

 

[PHENDERSON]

Can some teach me which passages are for coolant and which are for oil?

 

[Gtstorey]

No, hose goes through the frame to the radiator up front.

What about the heater, oil cooler, pcv hoses, etc. My car has a whole bunch of hoses running everywhere. Maybe you had a coolant hose a pcv hose mixed up.

 

[PHENDERSON]

I hope that's what it is. I'll take some pictures tomorrow for you to verify.

 

[PHENDERSON]

Does anyone know which passages are coolant and which are oil? I'm doing some leak tests since I have the head off again but am not 100% sure where oil and coolant are supposed to go. I know the 10 round are the head bolts.

 

[ah.b.normal]

Just out of curiosity, when you pulled the head off were all 4 cylinders full of coolant?(or even just a little puddle on the piston) or just one or two? and which ones? It would take more research to pin down exactly which intake valves would be open but if the PCV hose was connected to the cooling system, coolant COULD run into the intake tract only and then past any OPEN valves into the cylinders. And with the cams installed and resting in any position, intake valves would only be open to admit coolant into 1 or 2 cylinders. And if the cams were not yet installed, when you put on the head, all valves would have been closed! (A "good" closed intake valve shouldn't let water pass in any big volume, maybe a drip?, but not enough to fill a cylinder.) This is all so curious! and it would be nice to find out HOW this motor is leaking and WHY? And how is it getting into the bellhousing area? (Small Block Chevys had two freeze plugs{the middle one was the butt of the cam not a freeze plug and would leak only oil} on the rear face of the motor and they sometimes rusted and leaked into the bellhousing area, a problem usually only seen on boats.) Now that you have the head off, lay it on the bench upside down with sparkplugs installed and tightened, with the combustion chambers level, fill them with water. They should not leak overnight. A cracked exhaust valve seat will usually leak enough to be noticeable and the water won't be in the exhaust ports but in the water jacket in the head coming out where the large coolant hose is connected to the head on the passenger side/ front of the motor. Cracks in aluminum are hard to detect. I believe machinists use air pressure, a deck plate fixture, liquid dye and black light.