Has anyone tried using after market ECU, I have a 2006 not tunable ecu. I am thinking of building a Speedunio for my ecotec. Other option may be an ecu from https://www.diyautotune.com/. Any feedback would be helpful. ultimate goal is to add turbo to mine.
ECU /ECM
- Thread starter cetuttle
- Start date
Ross
Goblin Guru
A few builders have done aftermarket stand alone ECUs. Not sure what ECU they used.
I have been trying to figure out if I want to go beyond my HP Tuners on the stock P12 PCM with a break-out box (arduino), or just go with a whole new ECU system.
My 2006 LSJ engine has a 60-2 (58x) reluctance wheel with a Variable reluctance (VR) sensor, also known as mag (magnetic) sensor.
The more I learn about this, the more questions I have. How many injector channels do I need? I was thinking you need one for each cylinder, but the MegaSquirt only has 2, and can run a V8 engine.
I plan on running a turbo, but really would like a Flex Fuel sensor, and be able to run various mixtures of ethanol/gas.
I worry that an arduino doesn't have enought CPU and RAM to be full featured ECU, but it might work better as a break-out box that reads a flex fuel ethanol sensor, and modifies the injector PWM signal.
I have been trying to figure out if I want to go beyond my HP Tuners on the stock P12 PCM with a break-out box (arduino), or just go with a whole new ECU system.
My 2006 LSJ engine has a 60-2 (58x) reluctance wheel with a Variable reluctance (VR) sensor, also known as mag (magnetic) sensor.
The more I learn about this, the more questions I have. How many injector channels do I need? I was thinking you need one for each cylinder, but the MegaSquirt only has 2, and can run a V8 engine.
I plan on running a turbo, but really would like a Flex Fuel sensor, and be able to run various mixtures of ethanol/gas.
I worry that an arduino doesn't have enought CPU and RAM to be full featured ECU, but it might work better as a break-out box that reads a flex fuel ethanol sensor, and modifies the injector PWM signal.
jirwin
Goblin Guru
Reading the digital instructions PDF on this pages makes me wonder if there's a way we can do that with the stock ECU.
zzperformance.com
ZZP LTG E85 Flex Fuel Conversion Kit
ATS E85 Flex Fuel Conversion Kit connects inline with your fuel line. It constantly monitors the fuels ethanol percentage and then sends a signal to the PCM. This kit will not work without our ATS PCM Tune that is setup for it.
zzperformance.com
Not that simple. The ECM needs the correct tables to handle the changing percentage of ethanol. I know the LNF doesn't have them and I doubt most of the other Cobalt ECMs have them or ZZP would market this for the Cobalts. You can set most of them up to run a fixed percentage of ethanol, but you don't need a sensor if the percentage isn't changing.Reading the digital instructions PDF on this pages makes me wonder if there's a way we can do that with the stock ECU.
ZZP LTG E85 Flex Fuel Conversion Kit
ATS E85 Flex Fuel Conversion Kit connects inline with your fuel line. It constantly monitors the fuels ethanol percentage and then sends a signal to the PCM. This kit will not work without our ATS PCM Tune that is setup for it.
GM's decisions on what to make flex fuel seems to be all over the map. Some of this may be driven by GM trying to anticipate where regulations may be going or maybe the regulations are just screwed up. It also maybe driven by anticipated foreign markets or foreign design since I think the US maybe the only place were high ethanol content is common.
I think the newer stuff that is flex fuel doesn't even run a sensor but "recognizes" that it has a percentage of ethanol from fuel trims and tries to adjust from there (and doesn't do a very good job).
I think the newer stuff that is flex fuel doesn't even run a sensor but "recognizes" that it has a percentage of ethanol from fuel trims and tries to adjust from there (and doesn't do a very good job).
jirwin
Goblin Guru
You would have to check the pinouts for the ecm to see if they can be made to work. And can they communicate with the Cobalt BCM. There are a lot of post on the HP Tuners forums about mixing various modules in the LS engine world and how difficult it can be to get everything to work together. And that is with platforms that a lot of tuners have tried. Using an ECM from those you listed could probably be made to work but very doubtful that it would be drop in. The easiest path would probably be to start with one of those cars as a donor and modify the Harnesses and use the BCM and ECM like is done from the Cobalt. It might be possible to use just the ECM and wiring harness, but you would have to figure out the theft deterrent portion if it comes from the BCM. And check the sensors such as crank and cam position read the same. Etc, Etc, Etc.
Ross
Goblin Guru
Here is a good article about adding flex fuel to older engines.
It says "You will need an electronic control module that plugs in between the fuel injectors and the factory fuel injector electrical connectors. There are a number of companies that manufacture these units and you can find them for purchase online without too much trouble. "
This is what I was calling a break out box. I was thinking about making an arduino one, but if there is one already made... that would be easier.
Here is one that is pretty expensive... $700-$1000. Hopefully we can find a cheaper one.
At that price level, might as well just get an aftermarket ECU.
"The fuel sensor has largely gone away as exhaust sensing has gotten better. I can't remember the last flex fuel car we did with a sensor- all that really needs to be done is open up the learning window for some distance after a fill up. The system will set a baseline of how much ethanol is in there, fix that value, and then let the system learn from there. Until the next fill up. It's really easy with WB sensors."
It says "You will need an electronic control module that plugs in between the fuel injectors and the factory fuel injector electrical connectors. There are a number of companies that manufacture these units and you can find them for purchase online without too much trouble. "
This is what I was calling a break out box. I was thinking about making an arduino one, but if there is one already made... that would be easier.
Here is one that is pretty expensive... $700-$1000. Hopefully we can find a cheaper one.
At that price level, might as well just get an aftermarket ECU.
"The fuel sensor has largely gone away as exhaust sensing has gotten better. I can't remember the last flex fuel car we did with a sensor- all that really needs to be done is open up the learning window for some distance after a fill up. The system will set a baseline of how much ethanol is in there, fix that value, and then let the system learn from there. Until the next fill up. It's really easy with WB sensors."
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Rauq
Goblin Guru
From my understanding, there's two methodologies for flex fuel, sensor based and inferred. I believe ECMs typically support one or the other, so there's not much of a choice there.
edit: found info that suggests the '08 LE5 (Cobalt Sport, formerly SS/NA) is actually an E37
E16A (early L61): can't be tuned
P12 (LSJ): no flex fuel support
E37 (late L61/LAP, '08 LE5): can be pinned for a flex fuel sensor
E67 ('06-07 LE5): can be pinned for a flex fuel sensor
E69 (LNF): inferred (kinda?)
As much as I'm not an expert in any sense here, I know significantly less about anything that's not a P12, so take all this with a grain of salt. I don't believe any Cobalt came set up for flex fuel, but the E37 and E67 ECMs can have a flex fuel sensor pinned in. I believe the E69 with its built in wideband can compensate for fuel composition changes, but it's not a true inferred flex fuel setup, meaning you're in for a bad time thinking you can go from a spot-on 93 tune to a full tank of E85. You might be ok with a solid E47 tune when the E85 pump is actually E70 on a bad day, but that's all speculation.
To answer the original question that was asked, I believe the early L61s had different crank and/or camshaft position sensors, so the E16A ECM can't be easily swapped for the E37 ECM (which can be flex fuel tuned). I'm not sure if an aftermarket ECU or an engine + factory ECM swap would be easier.
edit: found info that suggests the '08 LE5 (Cobalt Sport, formerly SS/NA) is actually an E37
E16A (early L61): can't be tuned
P12 (LSJ): no flex fuel support
E37 (late L61/LAP, '08 LE5): can be pinned for a flex fuel sensor
E67 ('06-07 LE5): can be pinned for a flex fuel sensor
E69 (LNF): inferred (kinda?)
As much as I'm not an expert in any sense here, I know significantly less about anything that's not a P12, so take all this with a grain of salt. I don't believe any Cobalt came set up for flex fuel, but the E37 and E67 ECMs can have a flex fuel sensor pinned in. I believe the E69 with its built in wideband can compensate for fuel composition changes, but it's not a true inferred flex fuel setup, meaning you're in for a bad time thinking you can go from a spot-on 93 tune to a full tank of E85. You might be ok with a solid E47 tune when the E85 pump is actually E70 on a bad day, but that's all speculation.
To answer the original question that was asked, I believe the early L61s had different crank and/or camshaft position sensors, so the E16A ECM can't be easily swapped for the E37 ECM (which can be flex fuel tuned). I'm not sure if an aftermarket ECU or an engine + factory ECM swap would be easier.
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Everything I've seen on HP tuners say that that the LNF an be adjusted to run on what ever percentage you want of ethanol, but no real flex fuel capability. I've also read that there is no power increase to go to higher ethanol percentage that about 50%, but I don't remember what the limiting factor for that was. It might have been stock fuel pump/injector sizing.
