Issues with brake lines and tee's

[BAR-AIR]

Well kind of a crappy day working on the brake system. What should have been a simple day of tightening all the finger tight connections and power bleeding the system turned into most likely pulling the system out to replace the lines and tees.
So here are somethings to look out for... photo below is a 2008 master cylinder and the supplied brake line. The connector is a M12x1, the brake line has an inverted (double flare). Problem is the brake line connector is a bubble flare connector not the inverted flare connector simply will NOT work you only have about 9/32" depth in the master cylinder you catch a thread to a thread in a half. The connector you will need is a BQ9180 Brakequip. So OK I just got unlucky and the wrong connector was used. So I find the correct connector (not available at auto parts stores) cut off the flared end and reflare with correct connector.
Fill brake reservoir life should be good again.
NOPE.... Main brake line the one I just replaced the connector on the other end is pissing fluid like it is not even connected go to tighten it is tight but line is still loose. This end basically has a inverted flare connector on a bubble flare line (tees have all bubble flare ends). So splice in a bubble flare line into the long line. That line was not long enough to just cut and reflare with correct connector. Re connect add only a little fluid because I'm already swimming in fluid, now the two other lines begin leaking also notice the front tee is also leaking slightly from at least two of the connections.
So after talking to Lonny and a reexamination of the lines and the tees in a perfect world if the tees are completely threaded all the way to the bottom where the thread would meet the angle for the bubble flare (they are not). The supplied brake lines with the bubble flares and the completely threaded connectors will work. If not they will bottom out the threads before seating the lines and will leak (ALOT!!!)

Below is a photo of the supplied line the bottom one you can see it is threaded to the flare (that same connector was used on both inverted and bubble flares). The upper connector (not the right size just what I had for photo purposes) the connector has a step back for the threads so that even if the tees are not completely threaded the lines would still be seated.

After talking with the guys at DFKITCAR just snug the lines as tight as possible to see if you can get them to seat none of the supplied lines at the tees seated (even using tube wrenches stripped two connectors) and they still leak. The only one that did not leak was the replaced bubble flare connector with the step back.
So check your lines and your tees. I have a finished car for all practical purposes and am going to have to pull some of if apart just to replace lines. And the kicker, is there is a couple of week lead time to get me new lines...
So basically a crappy day in kit car world.

 

[Adam]

Thanks for the additional information. During our phone call with you yesterday we mentioned that the problem lies with the brake tees.

Here's how this basically happened:

When we first decided to supply brake lines instead of reusing the donor lines we went to the local VW shop and picked up two brake tees. We tested on our car with bubble flares with a 45 backside with a brake tube nut with a 45 seat. Everything worked well.

After we delivered the first 4 frames and started assembling the three kits here at the shop, we noticed that some of the brake lines weren't tightening up. That was when we found that some of the brake tees that we ordered in a larger quantity weren't universal like our original ones. The universal tees are tapped deeper, have a larger undercut and a shallower seat.

We immediately sent out an email to the first 4 guys letting them know to check out their tees. The problem occurred when we packed your kit a little bit later and the wrong tees were packed. That is why yours isn't working but others are.

We've since switched to a DIN bubble flare (flat back side instead of 45) and a bubble flare fitting with the non-threaded shoulder. We did this just in case the wrong tees end up in our order again. The new style will work with either tee.

The two week delay was long enough to get your parking brake brackets finished up as well and send them at the same time. Instead, we will send you replacement lines this afternoon. We are going to have to thoroughly test the parking brake before we send them out. Don't want you to have a crappy time with those too.

Sorry for the problems. Thanks again for airing it out so that we have a chance to remedy the situation and make the kit better as we move forward.

 

[BAR-AIR]

Had a little better day today with the brake lines. Was able to splice a 5' section into the main line running through the tunnel metric bubble connectors on both ends then cut and bubble flared the existing line used a straight connector to secure them both together.

In the back I was able to cut the existing ends off it still left me enough room to re flare with the bubble flare fitting with the non threaded shoulder (as Adam called it). In the front I ended up making three new lines just was not enough line length after cutting off the ends. Started to bleed the lines but run out of time for today. So far they all look dry tomorrow will tell.

Take a minute and check your lines and tees hopefully I was the only one that got the bad tee and connector combination.

 

[DanPerryy]

Just a note - I usually try to put the head down on all underside bolts to keep rocks from destroying the threads and making it difficult to remove. The rear brake tee bolt is a rock catcher.

 

[Lonny]

Thursday we shipped you six new lines and two new tees. You should be getting them soon.

 

[BAR-AIR]

THX,
Bolt is a temporary when I changed the line I reformed it over the cross member thus removing the spacer. In the aircraft world the bolt is always down so if you loose the nut you still should keep the connection for a time.

 

[Johvans]

What should the new brake tees in the kit look like?

 

[Lonny]

It should have deep threads like the one on the left.
Using you fingers you should be able to screw the tube nut in far enough to start clamping on the brake line flare.