Looking for advice on going more power than stock

AS1xReign

Member
I am in the planning stage right now. Looking to order within the next 6-12 months. Considering spending the 2k for a brand new LNF long block. Couple questions. First, Is the body harness and everything else the same on the NA and TC cars? Or do i ablsolutely have to have a TC SS donor? Second, Anybody tried going like 400 whp?? Wondering about traction issues etc.
 

Ark :D

Goblin Guru
There are differences between the NA and SS harnesses. I can't enumerate them all for you, but there are differences. I am sure a NA harness can be made to work with a TC donor, but....

There's a number of people on here who have beyond-stock Goblins. Check the Build Logs section out, lots of experiences and strategies of different type to feast on. But everything I've read and watched from other Goblin builders says that a base NA donor Goblin is mighty quick, and a SS/SC or SS/TC donor Goblin is enough to take your breath away.

Where are you located? Chances are, there's someone relatively close to you with a finished Goblin. Maybe you could arrange a "preview".
 

AS1xReign

Member
Im near Fort Wayne, IN. I would probably stay stock TC for awhile but just asking in general. Also considering taking it to the Dragstrip but not sure if the track frame would be required for that as i like the looks of the city frame more.
 

Indy Lonnie

Well-Known Member
Im near Fort Wayne, IN. I would probably stay stock TC for awhile but just asking in general. Also considering taking it to the Dragstrip but not sure if the track frame would be required for that as i like the looks of the city frame more.
I’m in Indianapolis. I took my goblin to ZZPerformance in Michigan for a dyno tune. Best money I’ve spent. $200 I went in with a very fast car, came out with a car that is a complete handful and traction limited now. It behaves and starts sooo much better.
 

Vwsaabvt

Well-Known Member
Im near Fort Wayne, IN. I would probably stay stock TC for awhile but just asking in general. Also considering taking it to the Dragstrip but not sure if the track frame would be required for that as i like the looks of the city frame more.
You are pretty close to me, I'm in Delphos Oh, if you want to check out my extended track frame I'm probably about an hour away from you. I dont have a ton done to it yet but it would be enough to give you an idea.
 

AS1xReign

Member
You are pretty close to me, I'm in Delphos Oh, if you want to check out my extended track frame I'm probably about an hour away from you. I dont have a ton done to it yet but it would be enough to give you an idea.
I might have to get ahold of you fairly soon then. Is there a way to private message on this forum to setup a time or something. Doesnt have to be soon could be in the next couple months.
 

Desert Sasqwatch

Goblin Guru
Question: your title indicates you are using a 2007 SS/SC donor, but are planning on purchasing a LNF motor to install? There are some significant differences between the LNF and LSJ engines that don't allow for a direct swap of the supercharger onto the turbo engine. Most significant is the direct port fuel injection of the turbo - unless you are planning to use the LNF as a turbo motor and not the supercharger? Then the differences that Ark D mentioned above will come into play between a TC and SC donors.
 

AS1xReign

Member
Question: your title indicates you are using a 2007 SS/SC donor, but are planning on purchasing a LNF motor to install? There are some significant differences between the LNF and LSJ engines that don't allow for a direct swap of the supercharger onto the turbo engine. Most significant is the direct port fuel injection of the turbo - unless you are planning to use the LNF as a turbo motor and not the supercharger? Then the differences that Ark D mentioned above will come into play between a TC and SC donors.
I dont see anywhere my title says i will be using a SC donor? I just asked about buying a NA donor but using an LNF engine.
 

Brian74

Well-Known Member
I’m in the middle of the build you are asking about, but used an SC donor. N/A would be very similar; possibly slightly more difficult.

The wiring harness is quite different. You will have to buy the Bosch E69 PCM connector and pins and completely re-pin it for the PCM as well as add several additional pinned wires. You will need to purchase a complete engine harness, BCM, PCM, and probably the VATS module from a TC car (preferably the same car). You will also need to rewire/resolve several main harness relay and connector issues inside the fuse box with either the LS or SS fusebox. You’ll need to source a fuse box mount from a TC car if you wish to mount the E69 PCM in the normal spot. It is a LOT of work and takes some expert wiring diagram reading skills because its easy to make mistakes, but not impossible.

You can use either the SC or TC transmission; the final drive ratios are slightly different.

For 400 HP you will need a bigger turbo, Opal injectors and upgraded MAP sensors at the least, and 400 hp may still be asking too much at that point. The guys at ZZP could probably give you a better idea on that. Tuning the E69 PCM is a bit more difficult than the Delphi.
 
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Lonny

Administrator
Staff member
You will save thousands of dollars and hours of headaches if you by a supercharged donor upfront and then later do a LSJ turbo swap. You will be able to easily get well over 400 hp.
 

Brian74

Well-Known Member
^ Listen to this dude. In hindsight, this is the route I wish I would have taken, lol.

Way easier to tune an LSJ PCM, especially for a turbo swap.
 

AS1xReign

Member
I wouldn't be the one tuning anyway. From the little research ive looked into the LNF block is slightly stronger but im not sure how i feel on the direct injection vs normal port injection. And why or how is a LSJ turbo swap cheaper than just going turbo up front?
 

Brian74

Well-Known Member
You’re going to hear mixed opinions all over concerning which block is “better.” AFAIK, there are more people making higher horsepower from the LSJ blocks using turbos.

In the end, I’ll be happier with the LDK/LNF simply due to the sheer amount of torque it delivers at low throttle with the VVT and the piece of mind of having a brand new engine.

By tuning being more difficult, I mean there aren’t as many tuning options on the Bosch E69 PCM. For example, the VATS cannot be disabled, which can be a pain in the ass later on. The fuel maps are extremely complex and do not offer near as much versatility as the Delphi PCM in the LSJ. You can read all about it on the HPTuners forum. Bosch isn’t terribly kind to the aftermarket.

With an LSJ turbo’ed, the entire process is much more plug & play with an SC donor and it simply leads to an easier build. Price wise, the turbo kits aren’t cheap, but its still a very reasonable bang for the buck.

On the other hand, to convert an N/A to run with an LNF/LDK block you will be nickel and dimed a comparable (if not greater) amount of money and it will be much more time consuming. To add another 100 hp to an LDK/LNF, you will definitely be spending more.

Another option is a pre 2007 SS 2.4 (if you can find one with a 5-speed). The pre-2007 internals are fully forged, make 175 hp and have VVT. There are turbo kits for those as well.
 

BAR-AIR

Well-Known Member
Good Morning,
I have been working on a little different route to upping the HP... Fully forged 2.4L with gen3 block and to start with a new BorgWarner turbocharger from an LNF (which can easily be upgraded) going to be running a completely stand alone harness for the engine and transmission.
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THX,
Bruce
 

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BAR-AIR

Well-Known Member
Good Evening,
I have been working with RDM Ecotecs... I’ll give more of an update as I get it up and running. So far the harness looks really good (Alpha Fab’s also looked good but never worked ). Good news is Rich actually returns my calls and answers questions. We are still working out a couple of the connectors (some differences but we are close).
THX,
Bruce
 
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