Rant on rants nothing to do with Goblins or builders 'cause I like the Goblin and the builders - family

[Dale E]

Why do car builders buy HP Tuners to tune their cars? Is it the challenge to make their car better performing, or is it to learn a new knowledge base? The pretty colors, all the numbers and squiggly lines - it's just confusing! Best left to a professional I would think MHO. Put one number in the chart wrong and your car might be worse than stock, or you get lucky and it's better!

This all reminds me of the old school days, when folks used to play with the screws on the carburetors. Oh boy, could some mess things up. A good example is the Weber carbs with there flat spots off idle. You could make your car a real dog messing with those. I have had no problems with mine. They run like the fuel injected throttle bodies do with their sensors and computer aides.

An old Buick Estate wagon with a 455 ci V8 ran on a copper tube inserted into the float bowl running to the long air cleaner snout that had a venturi made from a copper pipe size reducing fitting and a couple of small holes drilled in the tubing feed line. An old 1956 Chevy pickup ran good with a barbeque in the bed and a hose to the carburetor -- recycled smoke use!

An elder lady took her Cadillac Northstar engined car in because it wouldn't start. The current batch of dealer mechanics sold her a new battery and starter for a lot of money. They did not fix it!! They plugged in their nice fancy computers and it said change these parts. They don't know how to diagnose! Well it was fixed for a few dollars by a proper diagnosis and six wires repaired. A mouse had gotten into the air cleaner inlet and chewed the wires at the computer plug. This lady was financially abused by the dealer -- shame, shame!!

Okay, like I said just had a Veteran old man moment! Continue on your great journeys with your builds and the enjoyment of driving!!

 

[Dsteinhorst]

The company I work for trusts me to modify programming on multi-million dollar machines. I think I can handle a $500 engine.

 

[Gtstorey]

This post coming from someone that tells every random poster that yes you can stick any engine you want in the Goblin or that yes you can build your own suspension (when typically the correct answer is "if you have to ask, you better leave it to the professionals) but tuning is some great mystery that only a few can master? Just because your skill set doesn't align?

 

[Goblinfanclub1234]

HP was nice for me, it came with my car actually. loading the ZZP tune was easy haha.

 

[TravMac]

I guess a few thoughts to consider having played with this the last year.

On the tuning front, there's lots of classes and opportunities to learn how to make these motors run effectively. The feedback from using these computer systems is pretty incredible, and quickly used for spotting inefficiencies or issues with how the vehicle runs. If we left it all to the "pros", we'd be buying camaros off the lot instead of building these things... ha!

Aside from that though, HPtuners also serves several other neat functions that people can utilize to better understand their driving and their car. Diagnostic tools do generic scan tool stuff, but also some special functions per the manufacturer. Data recording is another useful to look at drive cycles and racing input. They also provide tools to sync up data with video recording to do neat driving videos! I've used this the most this year just learning how I handle the courses I'm on.

 

[ctuinstra]

Well this one is simple to answer, at least for me. I'm a firm believer that we all do NOT know better than the engineers that have designed these engines. However, they designed the tune around the engine as it's fit in the car. Once we have pulled the engine and put it in a different frame and changed many designs and other aspects, the tune needs to be corrected. We no longer are using the OEM intake pipes and air boxes, so this effects the MAF. We modify the engine and this changes it character and again this all needs to be corrected in the tune.

Another aspect is the tune is a general tune for the manufactured engine and each can have very subtle differences and it can be fine-tuned in a bit more.

It's also nice to do data logging and see where everything is at as opposed to just assuming everything is fine. But the biggest thing is when you change things or modify the engine, you have to correct the tune.

Kaleb's job working for Roush is doing exactly that all day long. They are licensed by Ford to modify and change Ford designs for other purposes in other vehicles, such as the new USPS vehicle. As they change and modify the vehicle components, EVERYTHING has to be tested and tuned again. Here is a link to him on the job road testing: https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-new-usps-mail-truck-looks-positively-goofy-on-the-street

 

[Gtstorey]

I think that every Goblin would likely benefit from at least maf tuning. Since mine is very exposed I have to retune when I change from a single driver only windshield to a standard width one. The off idle running changes. Mine is exaggerated by having a K&N intake with a larger tube. Mine also boosted to 27 psi with the tune that was in the car. There are ot of reasons to tune. And finding a pro for the LNF is pretty much mail order only and then only a very few companies that do it.

 

[Ross]

I bought HP Tuners so I could learn tuning, turn off some of the lights on the dash, and eventually make a race engine.
It showed me that my engine was not getting MAP data on one of the sensors. I had been driving for 3 months, thinking the engine was running correctly, but in fact it was reduced power. A $30 MAP sensor, and my LSJ was way faster! Thank you HP Tuners.

So far I have done about 100 tuning runs on my stock engine. Tuned it for the shorter intake, shorter exhaust. It was out 15% in some spots because of the intake & exhaust changes. Mostly just learning how to tune.

One day I will put together a race engine, but I need to put on some aero wings first, as the car needs more traction before it gets more power, IMO.
I am comfortable enough with my tuning skills to go on to the next challenge: Cams, turbo, etc.

 

[Rttoys]

Back in the day you drilled out jets and made harder springs for the timing advance to get more power. It was all trial and error. You mixed and match to make things happen, All in hopes for gains without destroying the engine. Today, you do the same thing with a lap top. Work your way up, share info and make it hot. It’s always the little guy that figures out how to do it. In this computer world, we have the ability to share the info and everyone gets the gains. Soon we will be figuring out the electric cars and their potential. It’s all progression.

 

[devianteng]

Well this one is simple to answer, at least for me. I'm a firm believer that we all do NOT know better than the engineers that have designed these engines. However, they designed the tune around the engine as it's fit in the car. Once we have pulled the engine and put it in a different frame and changed many designs and other aspects, the tune needs to be corrected. We no longer are using the OEM intake pipes and air boxes, so this effects the MAF. We modify the engine and this changes it character and again this all needs to be corrected in the tune.

To add another important bit to this; manufacturers who build cars also have to comply to EPA standards, and depending on fuel economy ratings can get hit with a "tax" on each car sold. So tuning things a little on the lean side to favor economy and not performance is a common thing. Stoichiometric ratio for gasoline is 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel, but leaning that out to something like 15.7:1 will increase efficiency, but decrease performance and increase heat. Goblin's are performance oriented cars, and talking about MAF location is a great reason why a stock LSJ/LNF Goblin can still benefit (performance-wise) from a tune. Obviously power adders or changes to fuel systems (i.e., larger injectors) would require a tune to run well at all.

 

[Dale E]

Great discussion Goblin builders. Continue on your journeys. Yes, I have stated that most any engine could be used in a Goblin, true. I do have an HP Tuner on my work bench, so I've been on that road. And I have mocked up suspensions for the Goblin.

Thanks to all that responded!! Anything more to add and I'll take it all in!

 

[Brian74]

Story of my life lately, brother. In our quest for excellence, we often miss the little details that are the root cause of the issues. Instead we mask the problem by “tuning”. Quite often, bits and pieces of pertinent info are missed from the desks of engineers to the customer. Engineers just make it work under given conditions. They generally do not incorporate commonplace human factor into their designs. Its amazing what we can f*ck up when we miss the details. I’m in the middle of that right now on the aviation side.

 

[Chris_WNC]

I got a sticker with mine. Totally worth it.


CHRIS

 

[GoblinGuyZ]

Why do car builders buy HP Tuners to tune their cars? Is it the challenge to make their car better performing, or is it to learn a new knowledge base? The pretty colors, all the numbers and squiggly lines - it's just confusing! Best left to a professional I would think MHO. Put one number in the chart wrong and your car might be worse than stock, or you get lucky and it's better!

This all reminds me of the old school days, when folks used to play with the screws on the carburetors. Oh boy, could some mess things up. A good example is the Weber carbs with there flat spots off idle. You could make your car a real dog messing with those. I have had no problems with mine. They run like the fuel injected throttle bodies do with their sensors and computer aides.

An old Buick Estate wagon with a 455 ci V8 ran on a copper tube inserted into the float bowl running to the long air cleaner snout that had a venturi made from a copper pipe size reducing fitting and a couple of small holes drilled in the tubing feed line. An old 1956 Chevy pickup ran good with a barbeque in the bed and a hose to the carburetor -- recycled smoke use!

An elder lady took her Cadillac Northstar engined car in because it wouldn't start. The current batch of dealer mechanics sold her a new battery and starter for a lot of money. They did not fix it!! They plugged in their nice fancy computers and it said change these parts. They don't know how to diagnose! Well it was fixed for a few dollars by a proper diagnosis and six wires repaired. A mouse had gotten into the air cleaner inlet and chewed the wires at the computer plug. This lady was financially abused by the dealer -- shame, shame!!

Okay, like I said just had a Veteran old man moment! Continue on your great journeys with your builds and the enjoyment of driving!!

Why do guys build their own cars? Is it the challenge to make a car better or more fun than one they have already or is it to learn a new knowledge base? The pretty colors, all the nuts and bolts and wiring - it's just confusing! Best left to a professional I would think MHO. Put one wire in the chart wrong and your car might be worse than stock, or you get lucky and it's better!

This all reminds me of the old school days, when folks used to build cafe racers. Oh boy, could some mess things...

lol. Same reasons why someone wants to build a Goblin are probably same type of reason they want to make said Goblin better, faster etc, I think the bigger question is why wouldn't you want to.