Torque Steer

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Briann1177

Goblin Guru
Is there a such thing with the Goblin being RWD and torque steer really only affecting FWD? The reason I ask is that a full throttle pull from a slow speed to 70-80 MPH can be a scary experience. It doesn't want to go in a straight line. It wants to wobble left/right. I don't know if it's because of my alignment settings, torque steer, weight transfer, bumps in the road, or a combination of all that.

Brad mentioned that it can be caused by worn out control arm bushings. One of the control arms is brand new and the other one doesn't appear to have any obvious issues. The donor only had 47k miles on it.

My alignment settings are pretty much set to what DF recommends. The only thing that is slightly off is the caster which is set to about 7 degrees instead of the recommended 8 degrees. I'm not sure how that would even affect how it drives.
 
ctuinstra

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Our car tended to do that also. I don't believe it is as much as torque steer as it is lifting the front and changing the geometry. Also the rear squats and can change geometry too. So basically weight transfer. I don't have the answer for you as much as I have an opinion.
 
George

George

Goblin Guru
ctuinstra said:
Our car tended to do that also. I don't believe it is as much as torque steer as it is lifting the front and changing the geometry. Also the rear squats and can change geometry too. So basically weight transfer. I don't have the answer for you as much as I have an opinion.
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The rear suspension has very little bump steer. The front has a lot of wheel angle movement as the body raises and falls
I have taken all the bump steer out of mine it never darts on hard accleration or decelleration.

Brad
 
Waterdriver

Waterdriver

Goblin Guru
Briann1177 said:
One of the control arms is brand new and the other one doesn't appear to have any obvious issues. The donor only had 47k miles on it./QUOTE]

If your alignment is good and nothing is loose in your suspension, then I wonder if it's the bushings that have time and miles on them. One flexing under acceleration and changing toe on one side.
One being soft and compliant, the other being new and stiff.

Do you have an LSD? Maybe fighting for traction under acceleration?
Wheel bearings, are they new or from the donor? Jack each corner and try to move the wheel and tire around. See if anything moves.
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ctuinstra

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
While I was in Texas picking up the new frame, Lonny let me test drive his car. Now that I have seat time in a Goblin and I have a bit of the same issue as others with the meandering, bump steer, torque steer, or whatever one might call it, I have something to compare to. And I will tell you, Lonnie's car does NOT have any of these issues! That car seemed so planted it's unreal. I run it through the gears on a very undulating backcountry road hitting readline through first and second, and his car did not dart one bit!

We talked a lot about it and some of the differences in his car and ours. The fronts are almost identical. I don't believe the alignment is that far out to cause a that much issue. But there are two things that are a big difference between ours, one is the coilovers; our car has the donor struts and I am certain one is not in good shape and is getting soft. So I am most certainly going to the coilovers with the new build. The other, and I believe this is a very important one, is the rear lower arm bushings. While I put new MOOG rubber bushings in our car when it was built, Lonnie has all metal ball joints on his and there zero give in them. I am a believer in that the bushings, even though they are new, still squish under hard acceleration causing the rear to toe in really bad. The toe in amount may vary from one side to the other also, causing the car to dart. Tonight I am ordering the ball joints and replacing them.

MOOG K200792

1538175324001.png
 
JERMzSS

JERMzSS

Well-Known Member
Make sure you have the part that locks the drive wheels installed correctly. I had mine upside down and it cause exactly what you described. Under acceleration the rear wheels were toeing in and out.
 
ctuinstra

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
JERMzSS said:
Make sure you have the part that locks the drive wheels installed correctly. I had mine upside down and it cause exactly what you described. Under acceleration the rear wheels were toeing in and out.
Click to expand...
That's certainly a good thing to check. If I'm not mistaken, and without looking, I believe the rack tube should be mounted where it's in the highest position.
 
Brian74

Brian74

Goblin Guru
ctuinstra said:
While I was in Texas picking up the new frame, Lonny let me test drive his car. Now that I have seat time in a Goblin and I have a bit of the same issue as others with the meandering, bump steer, torque steer, or whatever one might call it, I have something to compare to. And I will tell you, Lonnie's car does NOT have any of these issues! That car seemed so planted it's unreal. I run it through the gears on a very undulating backcountry road hitting readline through first and second, and his car did not dart one bit!

We talked a lot about it and some of the differences in his car and ours. The fronts are almost identical. I don't believe the alignment is that far out to cause a that much issue. But there are two things that are a big difference between ours, one is the coilovers; our car has the donor struts and I am certain one is not in good shape and is getting soft. So I am most certainly going to the coilovers with the new build. The other, and I believe this is a very important one, is the rear lower arm bushings. While I put new MOOG rubber bushings in our car when it was built, Lonnie has all metal ball joints on his and there zero give in them. I am a believer in that the bushings, even though they are new, still squish under hard acceleration causing the rear to toe in really bad. The toe in amount may vary from one side to the other also, causing the car to dart. Tonight I am ordering the ball joints and replacing them.

MOOG K200792

View attachment 5415
Click to expand...
That was one thing I noticed. Lonny’s car was incredibly stable in contrast to what I’ve heard mentioned from some other owners own Goblins. I’ve been debating on what to do about the control arm bushings and this more or less solidifies it. Rear coilovers is a no brainer simply for the adjustability.
 
B

Briann1177

Goblin Guru
Can somebody post a picture of their toe link bar? I'm 99.9% sure I have mine installed correctly, but I'd like to double check.
 
ctuinstra

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Briann1177 said:
Is this the correct way the toe link bar mounts?
Click to expand...
I'm quite certain that is the correct way to install it. That is the same way I have mine installed. Possibly I'm wrong also. We'll let the others chime in.

As far as the "all metal" bushings, think of them as a heim joint instead of a bushing.

Kind of like this:

1538320924766.png


So there is no give or play at all.

However, the front pivot joint is still encased in rubber, but not near as much. So the effect of this one will be to a much lesser degree.
 
ctuinstra

ctuinstra

Goblin Guru
Well, the plot thickens. I went to go pull my arms to have my previously install bushings removed and install the MOOG K200792. I knew I had MOOG brand in there but not that model number. What I have in there already is the MOOG K201285. Come to find out I already have ball-socket type bushings!

1539460817643.png


I popped open the rubber cap and sure enough, a ball in socket with grease.

The main difference between them is the K2011285 has a thicker outside and is coated in zinc for the aluminum arms.

1539470013144.png
 
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B

Briann1177

Goblin Guru
I'll have to buy a new rear passenger side knuckle. Apparently there is a lot of slop/wear in the knuckle hole where the tie rod end for the toe bar connects. Thinking back to when I was driving the donor around, it would pull very hard to one side under heavy acceleration. Didn't think too much about it at that time. I was hoping the problem would magically disappear in the Goblin so I forgot all about that.
 
B

Briann1177

Goblin Guru
It was actually the hole where the control arm goes and not the tie rod end. Anyways, I got the knuckle replaced and another alignment and it drives MUCH better. I can mash the throttle and go through all the gears without feeling like I need three hands. It actually feels weird having it drive straight.
 
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