Traé’s Goblin (06’ SS/SC #501)

[Gtstorey]

Not asking about changes to the tune, asking about changes to the car/motor. This build log is 30 pages.

 

[Rauq]

Your as-found is has fuel injector data, a bit more timing, and less computer restriction on boost. MAF and VE are the same as the stock file you provided, which is less than ideal, especially in a Goblin. Seems like a very basic injector + pulley tune. Interestingly, the RPM limiter is 6500 in the as-found vs 7000 in the stock tune. I thought that would've been the opposite but what do I know. Interestingly, the dynamic air high RPM disable is raised in the as-found vs stock. I don't dislike that, but it has to have good VE and MAF tuning to work well (vs just good MAF tuning if it's lowered).


The second non-stock tune (60lb Injectors 2.8 Pulley) is basically MAF only everywhere (dynamic airflow high RPM disable at 400rpm), which I'm not personally a fan of. In my opinion, that's a bandaid for not having good VE tuning. RPM limit in that tune is 7500 which is not bad, just unnecessary on a stock motor. There's a lot of tiny tweaks in spark timing, but nothing meaningful or strongly preferable that I can see.

 

[Traé]

Not asking about changes to the tune, asking about changes to the car/motor. This build log is 30 pages.

Whoops, sorry...changes are 60lb Injectors (Siemens 107961) and a 2.8" Pulley

Your as-found is has fuel injector data, a bit more timing, and less computer restriction on boost. MAF and VE are the same as the stock file you provided, which is less than ideal, especially in a Goblin. Seems like a very basic injector + pulley tune. Interestingly, the RPM limiter is 6500 in the as-found vs 7000 in the stock tune. I thought that would've been the opposite but what do I know. Interestingly, the dynamic air high RPM disable is raised in the as-found vs stock. I don't dislike that, but it has to have good VE and MAF tuning to work well (vs just good MAF tuning if it's lowered).


The second non-stock tune (60lb Injectors 2.8 Pulley) is basically MAF only everywhere (dynamic airflow high RPM disable at 400rpm), which I'm not personally a fan of. In my opinion, that's a bandaid for not having good VE tuning. RPM limit in that tune is 7500 which is not bad, just unnecessary on a stock motor. There's a lot of tiny tweaks in spark timing, but nothing meaningful or strongly preferable that I can see.

I have been diving into it more and looking at the injectors. The current file does not seem to be setup for the injectors I have in the car and the curve has a big spike in it when the others I look at are a smooth curve.

 

[Gtstorey]

There is a lot of different GM format data for Siemens 60lbs injectors. I don't know how anyone knows what to use.

 

[Rauq]

There is a lot of different GM format data for Siemens 60lbs injectors. I don't know how anyone knows what to use.

I bought my 80's from ZZP and their response to a support ticket request for injector data was basically "it's on the webpage where you bought the injectors" which is not much more info than "they're 80lb/hr injectors"

The data I'm running came from cross-referencing several ZZP tunes with 80# injectors. I figured if that's what they use then I probably can't come up with anything better.

You can theoretically turn off all fueling adjustments and bump the injector data one way or another and dial things in that way but I think tuning effort is spent much more productively tuning MAF and VE data once you've got decent injector data. In an ideal world, yes, you'd have spot on injector data before doing anything, but here we are....

The current file does not seem to be setup for the injectors I have in the car and the curve has a big spike in it when the others I look at are a smooth curve.

I don't have the tunes in front of me at the moment, where's the big spike you're looking at?

 

[Traé]

I don't have the tunes in front of me at the moment, where's the big spike you're looking at?

Flow rate vs kpa

 

[Gtstorey]

You can theoretically turn off all fueling adjustments and bump the injector data one way or another and dial things in that way but I think tuning effort is spent much more productively tuning MAF and VE data once you've got decent injector data. In an ideal world, yes, you'd have spot on injector data before doing anything, but here we are....

You can very easily run into idle, decel and starting issues though. It really isn't a matter of flowrate as it is the settings that come into play at the low flow rate. short pulse settings. The flow rate can be fudged in or the VE table modified to make it work at larger throttle openings.

 

[Rauq]

You can very easily run into idle, decel and starting issues though. It really isn't a matter of flowrate as it is the settings that come into play at the low flow rate. short pulse settings. The flow rate can be fudged in or the VE table modified to make it work at larger throttle openings.

Agreed, the point I was trying to make was, once you have the best injector data you can find, the next best improvements to be had will come from MAF and VE tuning, rather than trying to tweak short pulse adder by 0.1ms and wondering if that helped or hurt.

View attachment 52068

Assuming you got your 60# injectors from ZZP, I would suggest trying to track down some ZZP tunes that use the same injectors and copying most, if not all, of the injector data into your tune. I seem to recall from when I was looking around there were more 60# tunes than 80#, so hopefully you can find some good data. Do note that E85 tunes and boost reference fuel pressure systems may have different data even if the injectors are the same.

 

[Traé]

Assuming you got your 60# injectors from ZZP, I would suggest trying to track down some ZZP tunes that use the same injectors and copying most, if not all, of the injector data into your tune. I seem to recall from when I was looking around there were more 60# tunes than 80#, so hopefully you can find some good data. Do note that E85 tunes and boost reference fuel pressure systems may have different data even if the injectors are the same.

Injectors were in the car, might be causing some of the weird issues I have been having with it running so rich.
I found a spreadsheet to get the info input for these injectors on the HP Tuners forum. I have a file made with the correct parameters, just need to get credits and flash the car if I have time this weekend.

I have compared the file I made with a similar spec goblin tune I found on the forum, and it matches up.

Thank you for looking into this.

 

[Gtstorey]

And all this talk of injectors is assuming they are legit injectors and not counterfeit.

 

[Traé]

And all this talk of injectors is assuming they are legit injectors and not counterfeit.

Unfortunately that is the assumption, I do not have any other information on them.

 

[Traé]

So, I just need to make this post because I can’t believe it…I got a new goblin yesterday!

Not entirely, but after actually tuning for the right injectors it’s like a completely different car. So much more enjoyable to drive.

I was able to dial in the MAF and will work on speed density next time I have a chance.

No more power issues at high rpm, choppy idle, or touchy pedal. I will now have to get used to it again.

 

[ah.b.normal]

So, I just need to make this post because I can’t believe it…I got a new goblin yesterday!

Not entirely, but after actually tuning for the right injectors it’s like a completely different car. So much more enjoyable to drive.

I was able to dial in the MAF and will work on speed density next time I have a chance.

No more power issues at high rpm, choppy idle, or touchy pedal. I will now have to get used to it again.

"I Do love it when a plan comes together!" Col. Hannibal Smith(US Army, Ret.) Cheers! From me.

 

[Robinjo]

So, I just need to make this post because I can’t believe it…I got a new goblin yesterday!

Not entirely, but after actually tuning for the right injectors it’s like a completely different car. So much more enjoyable to drive.

I was able to dial in the MAF and will work on speed density next time I have a chance.

No more power issues at high rpm, choppy idle, or touchy pedal. I will now have to get used to it again.

Did you tune it yourself, grab another tune and work with it or get ZZP to remote tune it?

 

[Traé]

Did you tune it yourself, grab another tune and work with it or get ZZP to remote tune it?

I compared what I had to others but ended up finding a spreadsheet online for my injectors to put in. After that I tuned the MAF by myself. Still need to change some things but it’s supposed to rain all week.

 

[Traé]

Running into an issue where my AEM wideband is not matching what is being populated in HP Tuners. I have been tuning the VE tables and am noticing after 8 corrections I have an error of around -2% to -4%...which is great...but my wideband is reading 15-16 AFR.

My equation for pulling the wideband reading through the AC Pressure Sensor;
([7101.10]/.559)+8.5
I believe I can change the 8.5 in the equation to compensate for this, but was curious if there was a way to do this with more accuracy rather than quickly look between the wideband gauge and the computer screen to see if they are close.

Is there a way to force the AEM wideband to read a certain number and stay completely still so that I can correct the error between its reading and HP Tuners feedback, or do I need to just take a video and try to match it up? I want to get this figured out and then redo all tuning as it is not accurate and is causing the car to run on the leaner side.

 

[mike_sno]

That's the beginning of a deep rabbit hole. I came to the conclusion to calibrate my WB with the fuel trims (NB). From there I hope the failure is linear.

 

[Traé]

That's the beginning of a deep rabbit hole. I came to the conclusion to calibrate my WB with the fuel trims (NB). From there I hope the failure is linear.

I’m pretty sure I had my math wrong. There is an equation in my wideband manual and I didn’t understand what it was for at the time. Readings are now pretty spot on.

 

[Mirage775]

For others wanting to utilize brake lights with separate turn signals, this is how I wired them up;

I tied into the wires supplying the mirror turn signals at the fuse box. I have an 06 SS/SC, yours may differ slightly.
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I snipped the brake/turn wires in the harness for each light and tied them both into the 3rd brake light wire to supply power when braking and ran new wires from the fuse box to feed the turn signals.

I have everything wired and installed. The sequential turn signals, running, brake, and reverse lights work like a charm!
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I ordered these lights tonight! Could you share how you made the mounting bracket for them or possibly make a pair for me? I will gladly pay you!

 

[Traé]

I ordered these lights tonight! Could you share how you made the mounting bracket for them or possibly make a pair for me? I will gladly pay you!

I did not have to make a bracket, I used the bottom hole on the light mount and just sandwiched the edge of mounting bracket on the car in between the nut and the light. I used a small zip tie to keep it from rotating. The holes on the bracket on the car are just slightly different than the light. It’ll make more sense when you get the lights.

You could also drill into the bracket on the car where you need to mount it, I just didn’t feel like drilling another hole.