Dual clutch/paddle shifter swap

[Pizzaman]

I was thinking about how awesome it would be to down the line do a dual clutch/paddle shifter set up on one of these, has anyone done it? Or if not what do you think it would take?

 

[r3drckt]

Go buy a wrecked Kia Forte GT with the 7 speed DCT, modify the cobalt subframe to mount up, modify the chassis mounts, and then thin out the harness as needed and you’re done. Turbo 1.6L and a DCT.

Would probably be easier to do this than to fit a DCT to the cobalt Ecotecs

 

[Gtstorey]

Do you have a proposed transmission? Adapting a random transmission to what amounts to a front wheel drive vehicle is a lot different from a front engine rear wheel drive vehicle.
I did find the PCS GSM-5000 that might do what you are talking about for the cobalt auto transmission but I didn’t dig enough to figure out if it actually works with the cobalt auto. It probably only works for the gears that the the transmission is originally set up to shift with the stock shifter. I don’t know if the auto shifter can hit all of the foward gears or if it only has P-N-R-D-OD. Looks like it is $1200-$1600.

 

[Pizzaman]

Go buy a wrecked Kia Forte GT with the 7 speed DCT, modify the cobalt subframe to mount up, modify the chassis mounts, and then thin out the harness as needed and you’re done. Turbo 1.6L and a DCT.

Would probably be easier to do this than to fit a DCT to the cobalt Ecotecs

Thanks almost sounds tempting but I’ll have to look into it for for maybe a down the line project

 

[Gtstorey]

Go buy a wrecked Kia Forte GT with the 7 speed DCT, modify the cobalt subframe to mount up, modify the chassis mounts, and then thin out the harness as needed and you’re done. Turbo 1.6L and a DCT.

Would probably be easier to do this than to fit a DCT to the cobalt Ecotecs

Probably getting this to work in a rear wheel dive configuration will be a nightmare from the electronic side. It will be hard to get the transmission separated from traction control and wheel speed/abs. And does it have any aftermarket support to try and reprogram any of?

 

[Rttoys]

Just be like me and have the quick disconnect steering wheel, where the release looks like a paddle shifter. You have no idea how many people I have convinced it works.

 

[Pizzaman]

Just be like me and have the quick disconnect steering wheel, where the release looks like a paddle shifter. You have no idea how many people I have convinced it works.
View attachment 33199

that’s so funny yea looking at an nrg quick release for sure

 

[Rttoys]

that’s so funny yea looking at an nrg quick release for sure

So far, I have had 2 people ask me “you have a paddle shifter there, but it’s a normal standard there. So how does that work?” I can’t lie to them And tell them it’s my quick release. Then I point out the “tach” and “shift light” that’s actually the boost gauge and park brake light. It’s all jedi mind tricks.

 

[r3drckt]

Probably getting this to work in a rear wheel dive configuration will be a nightmare from the electronic side. It will be hard to get the transmission separated from traction control and wheel speed/abs. And does it have any aftermarket support to try and reprogram any of?

I thought reworking our harness in the cobalt was a nightmare anyways if you kept everything in the harness the same and only extended the stuff from the engine to the front (like our cobalts it’s the body to engine harness and 1-2 fuse blocks if I remember) then it might be easier that way. Wheel speed sensors can be kept with modification to the front spindle mounts. The rear would be fine if reusing the front spindles from the Kia like we did the cobalt. Of course you’d have to extend the front wheel speed sensors to the rear and the rear to the front. I don’t think the ABS would be needed for the DCT to work though. Not sure how integrated abs is on the car.

Biggest hurdle would be tuning as I’m not seeing any custom tuning stuff for the engine. Only things like jb4, race chips, etc. HPT and Bootmod3 don’t support it (only 2 custom tuning platforms I’m aware of).

I was driving my ‘21 forte GT the other day and was thinking how the 1.6L and DCT would work good in the goblin… ever since building the goblin, whenever I drive a fwd vehicle I think about the possibility of the next goblin platform that DF would use. Like the B38/48 out of a Mini would also be a hoot and BM3 supports tuning that and there’s a TON of modifications for that platform.

 

[Dale E]

Kind of an old subject rising again. Yes, you can do what ever you want with your build. If you want to use a different power train, then do it. You are on your own with all the engine, transmission mounts and chassis modifications to make it work. Wiring harness and computer stuff is also on your own to figure out. It can be done!! The Locost community has always done it that way -- build from scratch -- a part from this car and a part from another all joined to make it a fun ride. Be the first with a Goblin chassis to venture on this type of journey!!

Or not!

There has been a few discussions on the forum already, so dig them up and give them a read!

 

[Rauq]

DQ250 with a custom adapter plate to an LE5, LAP, or LNF powered Goblin. You need a standalone controller which requires 2 or more wheel speed signals (can do with factory front wheel speed sensors on the rear of the Goblin), brake signal and pressure, up and down shift switches or paddles, and a mode switch for auto/sport/etc. It also needs a full CANBUS ECU to talk to, thus no L61 or LSJ PCMs.

But it's also not something that I can find that anyone's done before (Ecotec + DQ250), so there's a lot you'd have to figure out on your own...

 

[Gtstorey]

The problem comes when you are trying to use some of the latest electronics since each generation gets everything more interconnected. Just reading on the HP Tuners forum for the GM Gen4 stuff how different things can affect other things you would never expect would have me doubtful that without a whole lot of time, skill, and money you can integrate some of the newer vehicles into what we do. And unless you have the ability to hack the control modules, you better start with something that already has aftermarket support. There may a newer auto front wheel drive transmission that has stand alone controllers available, but most of that market is centered around rear wheel drive transmissions.

If someone really wanted to pursue this, I would start with looking at something like the transmissions that were used it the Buick Regals or Cadillac's from 10 years ago. Not DTC but might already be tap/paddle shifted.

(I had most of this typed when Rauq posted above, so he has answered one of the issues I raised).

 

[k.rollin]

What I want is to do is fit a FWD sequential gearbox to my Goblin, but the cost is prohibitive. Instead, I've determined my next big automotive project will be a sportbike powered Triumph Spitfire, and the Goblin will get a standalone transmission controller for the 4T45e and a Lokar electronic sport shifter for the manual mode. Those changes aren't a priority at the moment, but simply outline a path forward for future modifications.

 

[Gtstorey]

Looks like Karl has the answer. There is at least one stand alone controller for the 4T45e. There maybe others.

E-Trans Control

If my manual broke, I might be tempted to go this route.

 

[k.rollin]

I think that other standalone transmission controllers for the more popular 4L80e transmission will work too, but I would confirm with the manufacturer first (should you go with someone other than E-Trans Control). By the way, I have a Manumatic kit from them that I won't be using because I bought the TCM920 later on, should anyone be interested in it. I'll post a thread in Classifieds later on.

 

[JBINTX]

Someone posted this guy's solution a while back.

 

[k.rollin]

Someone posted this guy's solution a while back.

Packaging constraints in our cars would make implementation of a similar solution very difficult.

 

[Ross]

Packaging constraints in our cars would make implementation of a similar solution very difficult.

The air actuators could be located back at the transmission, where there is enough room.

 

[JBINTX]

Packaging constraints in our cars would make implementation of a similar solution very difficult.

Oh, I agree that it is a complex and ugly solution. But a solution none-the-less.
Jeremy @Ark :D and I discussed paddles at great length a while back. He gets the electronics side pretty well. But, no easy solution, for sure.

The Hayabusa used on the Sierra car does make for a pretty slick setup.

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Not in the price range of a Goblin either. Or street legal.

In reality though, anything can be accomplished with enough time and money.........

 

[Ark :D]

My tenacity for requiring bulletproof solutions when I design something, combined with the reality that these are cars and therefore need to be safe and reliable (as it were) kiboshed any designing I was considering doing. I know I would not have been happy with anything without good error checking/correcting. Without being able to query the transmission at any point to ask "What gear are you in?", I knew it would be an uphill battle to create the logic needed for bulletproof shifting, and I didn't want my (or yours, or anyone else's) safety to be in question.