V1 Mikes Extended, Full Frame Goblin - 2009 Cobalt LS with 135k donor

[mike_sno]

Let the spark plug game begin:

The used LSJ engine came with NGK R PFR6T 10G. Seems like this are the specs. I measured all 4 and the Gap at around .038-.04in (Guess that's my measuring tolerance.

I replaced the Sparc Plugs with DENSO 4702 IK20TT. Seems like this are the specs. I did not change anything of the Gap.

Today I got the NGK 7092 BKR6EGP. Specs are here.

Will install them later tonight and hopefully make a test run.

It seems like whoever had the Engine before, must have already put a cooler plug in it. Hmm, not sure what that should tell me.

 

[Gtstorey]

You are really making to big a deal on heat range. A heat range +/-1 isn’t a big deal.

 

[mike_sno]

That's what I think too, but I don't want any odds against me.

Dual pass intercooler manifold arrived as well.

 

[mike_sno]

I am fairly happy with the Knock in my engine. If I compare the last log with the old sparc plugs and the same tuning with the new sparc plugs. I would say, i am ok to move on to the other tunings.

Now, I can continue with the real tuning. Starting with MAF. My long term Fuel Trim tables are high and I think the MAF tuning need to happen first.

Unfortunately I have no place to put the Wideband in. I don't have welding possibilities and with a catalytic converter installed there is no way of using the wideband at the moment.

 

[Ross]

Can you share a picture of your exhaust?
The wideband should be about 18" away from the head. Too close and it burns up, too far and it responds slow.

 

[mike_sno]

Hmm, the manual call for 24in.

Will have to stop by a muffler shop and ask if they can weld the bung in

 

[mike_sno]

Did not made it to the muffler shop.
Anyone knows if I:
- can take out the O2 Sensor behind the catalytic converter, move it to the end of the exhaust and fix it with a clamp (will read the same as before).
- Move the O2 sensor from before the catalytic converter behind the catalytic converter. Will read mostly 14.7
- install the wideband in the place before the catalytic converter?

 

[Ross]

The PCM (or ECU if you prefer) will adjust the fuel trims based on the O2 sensor before the catalytic converter.

I wouldn't move the post cat O2 to a clamp at the end of the exhaust.
Those exhaust clamps are used by tuners for wide open throttle tuning. At lower RPM, the exhaust can start puffing, and oxygen can enter the exhaust, and give bad O2 sensor readings. The catalytic converter normally burns up any residual fuel and oxygen, so I wouldn't expect it to read 14.7, maybe lean or no fuel at that point.

I wouldn't move the O2 sensor from before the cat to behind the cat, if you are running a catalytic converter.
Most of us don't run a cat or the post-cat O2 sensor... but the PCM will throw extra fuel in the exhaust (to feed the catalytic converter and make it hotter) if it notices unburned fuel getting to it.

 

[Joebob]

you can drill a hole in a straight section of pipe before the cat and add this for the wideband:

https://www.amazon.com/GlowShift-Clamp-Wideband-Oxygen-Adapter/dp/B07KY1TJ6B/ref=asc_df_B07KY1TJ6B/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=316708741155&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17985710377225804110&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027781&hvtargid=pla-625513090978&psc=1&mcid=25a32ae1f62a3b4baa5aa983f7ca174e&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzoeuBhDqARIsAMdH14HgX-w92ktNkirYAN3IRfeTOViKgfGfc7AKvC7sqPDaCUyy-PNSkDkaAokDEALw_wcB

 

[mike_sno]

The PCM (or ECU if you prefer) will adjust the fuel trims based on the O2 sensor before the catalytic converter.

I wouldn't move the post cat O2 to a clamp at the end of the exhaust.
Those exhaust clamps are used by tuners for wide open throttle tuning. At lower RPM, the exhaust can start puffing, and oxygen can enter the exhaust, and give bad O2 sensor readings. The catalytic converter normally burns up any residual fuel and oxygen, so I wouldn't expect it to read 14.7, maybe lean or no fuel at that point.

I wouldn't move the O2 sensor from before the cat to behind the cat, if you are running a catalytic converter.
Most of us don't run a cat or the post-cat O2 sensor... but the PCM will throw extra fuel in the exhaust (to feed the catalytic converter and make it hotter) if it notices unburned fuel getting to it.

Understood. Just for clarification, I don't want to do that permanently. I am looking for a way to do it and get the tune in, then bring all back to standard. I hope by that I either find someone who can weld the O2 sensor bung in or use the adapter from posted earlier.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Making the tune and then changing the O2 sensor locations will effect the tune.

Also for the cat to work correctly with the ECM/PCM, it must see the exhaust gas before the cat AND after the cat so it can make the correct adjustments. If not it will most likely over correct in one direction that will throw off your tune.

 

[ah.b.normal]

Understood. Just for clarification, I don't want to do that permanently. I am looking for a way to do it and get the tune in, then bring all back to standard. I hope by that I either find someone who can weld the O2 sensor bung in or use the adapter from posted earlier.

I am quite sure the band type O2 clamps will leak a little, but would probably stay sealed well enough long enough to get readings that are fairly reliable. Yes, You'd get "a base line", but when you move the 02 sensor placement they will need tuning attention again.
I wouldn't worry, it will probably just run rich, hopefully not so fat that it plugs up your CAT and drinks your bank account dry!! Which is not usually an instantaneous result, just a common eventual result.

 

[mike_sno]

First iteration of an adapter which helps me to get the belt of.

 

[jirwin]

Buy ZZP's tensioner, its great. Let's you take it off with a wrench no problem

 

[Robinjo]

Buy ZZP's tensioner, its great. Let's you take it off with a wrench no problem

Really? I may grab one of those on my next order. Right now, it’s me pressing down the pulley and Mrs. Slipping the belt on.

 

[jirwin]

Really? I may grab one of those on my next order. Right now, it’s me pressing down the pulley and Mrs. Slipping the belt on.

It makes the pulley bolt left hand thread so you can just turn it left and collapse the tensioner. Wonderful design

 

[Rauq]

Making the tune and then changing the O2 sensor locations will aeffect the tune.

Also for the cat to work correctly with the ECM/PCM, it must see the exhaust gas before the cat AND after the cat so it can make the correct adjustments. If not it will most likely over correct in one direction that will throw off your tune.

I don't think the post-cat sensor (B1S2) does anything for fueling. It just throws a DTC if it doesn't switch like it should based off of B1S1 and fuel trims.

If you wanted to dive into tuning, go ahead and pull the first narrowband sensor out and put the wideband in (wired up). You'll lose closed loop fueling... but you will be turning closed loop fueling off for the bulk of MAF and VE tuning anyway.

 

[ah.b.normal]

I don't think the post-cat sensor (B1S2) does anything for fueling. It just throws a DTC if it doesn't switch like it should based off of B1S1 and fuel trims.

If you wanted to dive into tuning, go ahead and pull the first narrowband sensor out and put the wideband in (wired up). You'll lose closed loop fueling... but you will be turning closed loop fueling off for the bulk of MAF and VE tuning anyway.

Try to get this guy's help always, he KNOWS some STUFF!!

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

I don't think the post-cat sensor (B1S2) does anything for fueling. It just throws a DTC if it doesn't switch like it should based off of B1S1 and fuel trims.

If you wanted to dive into tuning, go ahead and pull the first narrowband sensor out and put the wideband in (wired up). You'll lose closed loop fueling... but you will be turning closed loop fueling off for the bulk of MAF and VE tuning anyway.

I didn't say anything about fueling in my reply, but you sure seem to imply it's in there. I only stated that both O2 sensors, the one before the cat and the one after the cat are needed for the system to work properly when a cat is needed. There are many sources that confirm that, like thus one from Cars.com - oh and it does talk about fueling adjustments based on what the O2 sensors are seeing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cars.com/amp/articles/when-should-the-oxygen-sensor-be-replaced-1420663031800/

 

[Gtstorey]

The second o2 isn't needed for the cat to function, only to know when the cat isn't functioning correctly, at least on GM. Of course it's needed to pass most emissions testing.