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Joebob

Goblin Guru
Oh, that dent would have been great for IC hose routing. I thought it was only TC cars with the dent to allow for the funny TB placement.

My manifold to gas tank clearance:
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jirwin

Goblin Guru
I originally went over and in front of the fuel tank with my coolant lines - and that's with a phenolic spacer pushing it out further. Maybe the dual pass helps that, not sure, can't remember what the stock end plate looks like. Assuming you can do that, turbo is possible with ZZP's LSJ-T adapter.

Or you do like DF did and make your own idler, or pay someone to do it.

All depends on how much work you want to put in
 

Tinkles

Well-Known Member
You can still do a turbo. There is no reason you cannot run the charge pipe to the stock TB on the stock intake manifold. The stock turbo and manifold from the turbo Cobalt will fit. You might have to swap the coolant cross over tube on the back of the engine. That turbo will make the same power as the supercharger. You'll probably have to piece together your intercooler and charge pipes.
 

mike_sno

Goblin Guru
Can someone explain me why it's not possible to replbuild the same setup of an LSJ? Belt tensioner, ac compressor and it should work or what am I missing?
 

Tinkles

Well-Known Member
Hmmm, that's completely opposite of what Ryan said today...? I think I'm just gonna stay NA for a while. However, if I go boost, I would definitely rather go turbo over SC!
Cavalier, Sunfire, Cobalt guys, etc have been swapping on the LNF/LDK OEM turbo for years. The turbo kits off of 2003+ Saab 9-3t were very popular. I don't see it as a difficult task. Yes, the supercharger is easier, but the turbo swap is still simple.
 

Chris_WNC

Well-Known Member
I've been in your shoes. My car was built with an LAP/Auto setup. I used that to get going and get through the paperwork side so that I could get it on the road. During the build I bought one of the big turbo LDK engines from ZZP. I quickly learned that port injection and direct injection don't plug-and-play swap. :D I'm stubborn. I ended up making it work by swapping my complete LAP head over to the turbo LDK long block and got it running. I very close to being done with the tuning side (remote through ZZP) and calling it good.

Here's some info if you look at turbo down the road. I am using my NA plastic intake manifold and NA throttle body. It fits with the full size welded fuel tank with no issues. I am using a turbo exhaust manifold and a custom exhaust that I welded together. Fueling is done with the NA fuel system except for larger injectors. I have a short belt that only hits crank pulley, the tensioner, and the alternator. MY ECM, TCM, BCM are all stock NA LAP/Auto. The tune was key to make it all work.

I've never seen the TC setup before so I can't envision how the space is being taken up or I'd try to help that. I kind of remember someone on here having a custom fuel tank made or maybe he had his tank modified to make something fit. It'd be a very simple job for a fab shop. Probably not very expensive if you "know a guy."
 

Joebob

Goblin Guru
Joebob did it
Yes I did. I had to custom a lot of stuff and the clearance it tight but:

yes Yes, YES a SC does fit on an auto goblin. You just need the LSJ belt system, alternator, crank pulley, A/C compressor.

You have to honestly answer the following:

1. Do you want to spend $2000 to make this happen? That what it cost me including HP tuners.
2. Do you want to spend a lot of time learning how to tune or pay $600+ to have ZZP do it?
3. Do you want to have to customize and modify parts to work?

If you answered no to any of these...You would be happier keeping it NA.
 

Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
I'll add this isn't every going to be like modifying a high production vehicle like a jeep with a huge aftermarket support. Every mod you consider will need to be carefully thought out and even then, you will run into problems. Just the nature of dealing with small production part runs and kit cars. It's never as easy as you think it will be.
 

95Blitz

Goblin Guru
For a cheap and dirty turbo setup you need the turbo, oil lines, header, intake manifold from a 2.0 Saab 9-3T, a throttle body and the connector from a 2.4 HHR.
A quick drive to B-Ham and you have 3 to pick from at the PullaPart. https://www.pullapart.com/inventory/search/?Locations=5&MakeID=51&Models=1360&Years=-1&LocationPage=false&LocationID=0#results
Air to water intercooler from here. https://www.frozenboost.com/air_water-ic/
Then you just need some pipes and rubber connectors and you have a turbo kit.
 

Tinkles

Well-Known Member
Some things I still have/need:
  1. I still have my SC unit and it's TB sitting in the garage, but the Bypass Valve is broken.
  2. I still have the heat exchanger I bought from Frozen Boost.
  3. I still have most of the parts to mount the heat exchanger, I'll have to order the heim joints.
  4. I will need to get another LSJ Intake Manifold
  5. I will need to order all the LSJ Pulley/Belt stuff
  6. I have my gutted AC Compressor still.
  7. I still have my Dual Pass kit as well.
What would I need for the rest of a SC "kit", since I already sent everything back to ZZP? I was at my 30 day limit and at the time, would not have gotten a refund on anything, if I returned it... I would hate to have to reorder it back from them? And I don't need their heat exchanger, that came with that kit anyway...
I *think* I have a spare used manifold or 2 laying around. You don't NEED the LSJ pulleys/belt/tensioner.

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The 1st pic is a buddy of mine, so I believe I can get the belt length/part number if he remembers it.
 

Gtstorey

Goblin Guru
Cool on the manifold, but, what I don't understand is, one person tells me I need to use this or that, then another person tells me I don't need to use this or that? It's very confusing.... :/

In the first pic above, I tried that with the LSJ intake (before I returned it), with the SC unit sitting on it and routing a string around the pulleys. The string was nowhere near touching the alt pulley at all...? Judging by that pic, that alt pulley is much larger than mine?

In the 2nd pic, where did that idler pulley come from, that's attached to the alt?
All of this stuff is just how people have made things work. There is no single way to do it. Not even a best (cheapest, easiest...), only a different way.
 

Robinjo

Goblin Guru
Yes sir, I understand what you mean and I'm fine with doing whatever, but it's difficult too, when you read you'll need all this, then you don't need any of that...
That's why you have to do research, find the method that works best for you and then make solid plans. This won't make the execution any easier to perform but at least you'll have a clear plan and direction to make modifications in. Jumping from idea to idea is only going to burn time and money.
 

Joebob

Goblin Guru
Cool on the manifold, but, what I don't understand is, one person tells me I need to use this or that, then another person tells me I don't need to use this or that? It's very confusing.... :/

In the first pic above, I tried that with the LSJ intake (before I returned it), with the SC unit sitting on it and routing a string around the pulleys. The string was nowhere near touching the alt pulley at all...? Judging by that pic, that alt pulley is much larger than mine?

In the 2nd pic, where did that idler pulley come from, that's attached to the alt?
like said by others, there are many ways to complete this. From the looks of it, the top picture uses the LSJ alternator bracket and maybe alternator to work. There does not look like enough engagement with the alternator to work at full amperage but I don't know. Also they might be using Phenolic spacers which push the intake manifold and supercharger out and up. Things that do not fit on a automatic car.

On the second picture, it is attached to a manual transmission and as discussed earlier, there are no clearance issues with the manual transmission.
 

Dale E

Well-Known Member
The supercharger pulleys look to be different sizes on the pictures posted too, so that will make a difference in the belt clearance and size. The alternator pulleys may be the same size in the pictures but the chrome versus black confuses the perception. You can also get different size alternator pulleys, so you have to find a fit solution then mix and match ancillary parts to make it work. The alternator attachment to the engine is - yes - different. Appears the top picture had maybe one of the old spring tensioners??
 

Traé

Goblin Guru
I just don't know about this mess anymore...

ZZP sent a 3.1 SC pulley with their kit, but the SC unit came with a 2.9, I believe, so that's what I tested it on the car with, the other day. Every forum I've seen, says do not use a 3.4 SC pulley....

Just seems to me, 50ish more HP, really isn't worth all this trouble. I cannot even find that SS alt bracket anymore, it's discontinued and I didn't see one of bay...?

It would almost be better to buy a 2.0 engine and salvage parts from it, as I assume I just wouldn't be able to swap engines and still use the L61 harness...
50hp would feel like a lot in a light goblin. Plus the SC whine is LOVELY.
 

Tinkles

Well-Known Member
Not to sound full of myself, but I have been messing with supercharged 2.2L(L61s) for ~15 years now. Mainly retrofitting to Cavaliers/Sunfires. I've done a few installs and have had quite a few "theoretical" chats with buddies about different setups.

The 2.0L(LSJ) and the 2.2L(L61) have different crank trigger wheels, so you'll need to swap PCMs too.

I doubt that this would solve the issue, but I found this:
https://store.custombuiltmotors.com/engine-components/brackets/cbm-motorsports-billet-ecotec-ls-alternator-bracket-adapter.html

I also came across this from PHerder's build:
Here are some pictures of the custom bracket for the new idler used when the Ariel Atom reconfigures the LSJ SC engine to work in their car.

Note: Ariel does away with all the brackets that are under the alternator so different length bolts are also required. I.e. the alternator is now closer to the engine block by ~ 1 inch.

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Also I found some plastic inserts in the alternator where this bracket is added. I am guessing they are there to help align the pulley(?) The second picture of the bracket has some machined areas where these plastic inserts end up fitting. Thus the bracket is held in place and aligned for the belt to run smoothly.
I don't know where to find that bracket. That would be the extra pulley in the 2nd picture I posted earlier. It doesn't look too difficult to make.
 
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