Intercooler Options for LSJ-T
- Thread starter finazzoty
- Start date
Ross
Goblin Guru
Most air to air intercoolers block a lot of rearward vision. For a race car, probably doesn't matter much.
They tend to be lighter, but increase the length and volume of the intake, so a bit more turbo lag.
There isn't much thermal mass (just the aluminum intercooler) so they are usually sized for maximum boost/maximum heat dissapation. They don't have much ability to store heat, as they only can dissipate heat immediately.
This is the simplest system, as far as mounting it to a car. Usually more aerodynamic drag.
Air to water can put the heat exchanger a long ways from the intercooler, so the small efficient intercooler can be placed directly in the intake path, and the heat exchanger can be tucked in where-ever you want to scoop air from, or where-ever you want to add some weight.
These have a large thermal mass in the coolant, so if you hit the throttle, the ambient temperature coolant can soak up a lot of heat quickly, and a small heat exchanger can cool that stored heat later. This is great if you have time between hits of power, like street driving, or drag racing. Of course you could run a large heat exchanger if you have a high boost-to-wait time, and want to get rid of heat quickly.
This has more parts to install in a car. Intercooler, heat exchanger, electric water pump, coolant lines. Your LSJ already has these parts, but the stock laminova-tube-intercooler is sized small, so builders tend to put a bigger intercooler in for a bigger turbo.
They tend to be lighter, but increase the length and volume of the intake, so a bit more turbo lag.
There isn't much thermal mass (just the aluminum intercooler) so they are usually sized for maximum boost/maximum heat dissapation. They don't have much ability to store heat, as they only can dissipate heat immediately.
This is the simplest system, as far as mounting it to a car. Usually more aerodynamic drag.
Air to water can put the heat exchanger a long ways from the intercooler, so the small efficient intercooler can be placed directly in the intake path, and the heat exchanger can be tucked in where-ever you want to scoop air from, or where-ever you want to add some weight.
These have a large thermal mass in the coolant, so if you hit the throttle, the ambient temperature coolant can soak up a lot of heat quickly, and a small heat exchanger can cool that stored heat later. This is great if you have time between hits of power, like street driving, or drag racing. Of course you could run a large heat exchanger if you have a high boost-to-wait time, and want to get rid of heat quickly.
This has more parts to install in a car. Intercooler, heat exchanger, electric water pump, coolant lines. Your LSJ already has these parts, but the stock laminova-tube-intercooler is sized small, so builders tend to put a bigger intercooler in for a bigger turbo.
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Thanks @Ross - I appreciate the detailed overview here.
I spoke with Ryan at ZZP on Friday last week and have discovered that the entry level turbo kit, which is what I have, is intended to integrate with the stock A2W cooling system, which I was unaware of (silly me, still learning about forced induction). Unfortunately, my stock heat exchanger is pretty busted up. What are the best after market options for this?
Also, as far as I can understand (but please correct me if I'm wrong), the Laminova cores inside of the intake manifold are what serve as the intercooler. Is this correct? If so, it seems like a very limited design, especially when moving to a turbo setup. Are there any good after market options for a better intake/intercooler assembly?
I spoke with Ryan at ZZP on Friday last week and have discovered that the entry level turbo kit, which is what I have, is intended to integrate with the stock A2W cooling system, which I was unaware of (silly me, still learning about forced induction). Unfortunately, my stock heat exchanger is pretty busted up. What are the best after market options for this?
Also, as far as I can understand (but please correct me if I'm wrong), the Laminova cores inside of the intake manifold are what serve as the intercooler. Is this correct? If so, it seems like a very limited design, especially when moving to a turbo setup. Are there any good after market options for a better intake/intercooler assembly?
Goblinfanclub1234
Well-Known Member
I have seen people use the stock LSJ air to water intercooler, add the 2 pass end plates and get a bigger water pump. If you want info on my air to air rear mount set up let me know. Rear visibility is trash but I still love it.
Ross
Goblin Guru
Yes, the Laminova cores is the stock, limited intercooler.
If you want to upgrade, I would shop at frozenboost.com.
I think this is the intercooler DF supplies for the turbo cars, with this heat exchanger. (You already have this from DF)
Frozen boost also sells A2A intercoolers, charge pipes, etc.
If you want to upgrade, I would shop at frozenboost.com.
I think this is the intercooler DF supplies for the turbo cars, with this heat exchanger. (You already have this from DF)
Frozen boost also sells A2A intercoolers, charge pipes, etc.
Sluggonaut
Goblin Guru
It uses the stock intercooler on a Cobalt, but on the Goblin you would use all the same intercooler components as used with the SC donors. So it doesn't matter what shape your donor's intercooler is in.
I am running that setup using just the ducts (no fan) with the entry-level turbo swap and I had no problems with IAT's last season. However, I was running only 12 PSI due to the way the wastegate was adjusted.
I didn't get that figured out until the end of the season and had no IAT issues in limited driving at 23 PSI, but it was cooler outside and I didn't get to drive it at that level for too long before the season ended. I'll be updating my build log this season with my experience running more boost and my boost controller.
Sluggonaut
Goblin Guru
If you are planning on changing the intercooler setup, don't go with the entry-level turbo swap kit. It is designed to be used with the LSJ intake manifold (reads: laminova core setup) and you're just buying parts you will be getting rid of if you plan on using a different intercooler setup.
Using the DF A2W intercooler for turbo cars, you will be using a different intake manifold, so make sure to plan this all out before buying parts.
ncgoblin
Goblin Guru
Well buddy its possibly your lucky day. I just happened to stumble upon this post and I just started collecting my A2W setup. I have converted to A2A because I apparently like to spend money yes its more costly. The A2W is New Setup with about 30 miles on it. From my chat history you can see I was fighting hot air on my supercharged setup. This will mount upper behind head. This setup is warmer on idle but once you are moving it cools much faster as I was data logging with HP Tuners I think it was worth the upgrade for sure. I also would include a Phenolic Spacer for the cost I mention that below. Overall its an easy setup just a little measuring and thread tapping. Also removes the tubes down the center and front heatsoaking heat exchanger.
Original Order: $332.73
1 x Remote Radiator Inline Filler Cap - 3/4" (WAT001064) = $26.99
10 x 0.75" Reinforced Silicone Heater Hose, Black (per foot) (WAT000642) = $44.90
1 x Water to Air Intercooler Radiator - 26x7x2 (Type 118) (WAT001063) = $169.99
1x Earls AT991104ERL = 14.95
350-8165 Heater Hose Fitting 90° Angle Fitting - $75.90
Spray Painted Eastwood Satin Black Radiator Paint
Sell For: $280 buyer pays shipping
You will want Tube Clamps x4 - AAF-ALL10456
Square Bar https://www.ebay.com/itm/384275871392. Can also buy from Lowes / Home Depot.
4x swivel bolt thingys forgot name (see pic)
I also have a dualpass and intercooler pump. The intercooler pump has probably 200 miles on it. Make me an offer if you want.
Lastly I have a new ZZP Phenolic Spacer in the package. This was never installed but I heard it makes a huge improvement I will let this go for $70 if you decide to order the heat exchanger.
LSJ Phenolic Intake Spacer
A hot engine heats up the air that is flowing through your intake. The engine is aluminum, as is the intake and they conduct heat very well. Your 180 deg engine adds unwanted heat to the LIM which houses the intercooler. That is why you need to upgrade with our ZZP LSJ phenolic spacer. A cooler...
zzperformance.com
I really appreciate everyone's input on this
@Sluggonaut Sigh - yes this is the realization I've come to as well. I should have just gone with the S257 to begin with as I had originally planned. Chances are, I'll probably end up yanking the Z54 off and redoing the entire system with an air-to-air S257 setup, but I have the Z54 already, so I figure I should at least give it a shot before I scrap my plans and start redesigning everything.
@Sluggonaut Sigh - yes this is the realization I've come to as well. I should have just gone with the S257 to begin with as I had originally planned. Chances are, I'll probably end up yanking the Z54 off and redoing the entire system with an air-to-air S257 setup, but I have the Z54 already, so I figure I should at least give it a shot before I scrap my plans and start redesigning everything.
Which intake manifold is this? Not sure I've seen this before
devianteng
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to say that I really appreciate your feedback here. I’m finishing up my build with stock LSJ, but future plan is s252/s257 but staying a2w. My plan was to use the df h/e upfront with a fan, but also add a second h/e like what you did, hoping it was low profile enough that I’d still have rearview visibility. Get all this cooling in place (dual pass, phenolic spacer, zzp intercooler pump) and run a year or two with the m62, but later turbo swap. Leaning toward the OTTP intake mani (wondering if I can run that with the phenolic spacer just because), but add the a2w intercooler like df uses for the lnf kits.Well buddy its possibly your lucky day. I just happened to stumble upon this post and I just started collecting my A2W setup. I have converted to A2A because I apparently like to spend money yes its more costly. The A2W is New Setup with about 30 miles on it. From my chat history you can see I was fighting hot air on my supercharged setup. This will mount upper behind head. This setup is warmer on idle but once you are moving it cools much faster as I was data logging with HP Tuners I think it was worth the upgrade for sure. I also would include a Phenolic Spacer for the cost I mention that below. Overall its an easy setup just a little measuring and thread tapping. Also removes the tubes down the center and front heatsoaking heat exchanger.
Original Order: $332.73
1 x Remote Radiator Inline Filler Cap - 3/4" (WAT001064) = $26.99
10 x 0.75" Reinforced Silicone Heater Hose, Black (per foot) (WAT000642) = $44.90
1 x Water to Air Intercooler Radiator - 26x7x2 (Type 118) (WAT001063) = $169.99
1x Earls AT991104ERL = 14.95
350-8165 Heater Hose Fitting 90° Angle Fitting - $75.90
Spray Painted Eastwood Satin Black Radiator Paint
Sell For: $280 buyer pays shipping
You will want Tube Clamps x4 - AAF-ALL10456
Square Bar https://www.ebay.com/itm/384275871392. Can also buy from Lowes / Home Depot.
4x swivel bolt thingys forgot name (see pic)
I also have a dualpass and intercooler pump. The intercooler pump has probably 200 miles on it. Make me an offer if you want.
Lastly I have a new ZZP Phenolic Spacer in the package. This was never installed but I heard it makes a huge improvement I will let this go for $70 if you decide to order the heat exchanger.
LSJ Phenolic Intake Spacer
A hot engine heats up the air that is flowing through your intake. The engine is aluminum, as is the intake and they conduct heat very well. Your 180 deg engine adds unwanted heat to the LIM which houses the intercooler. That is why you need to upgrade with our ZZP LSJ phenolic spacer. A cooler...
View attachment 38571View attachment 38572View attachment 38573View attachment 38574
With that second h/e on the rear bars, did you have any rearview visibility between it and the engine?
ncgoblin
Goblin Guru
I had some visibility issues in the rear, but I don’t really look behind me much. I had some invisibility issues in the rear, but I don’t really look behind me much. The one potential issue one could come into with the two heat exchanger set up is the pump not having enough pressure to feed the upper heat exchanger. I guess this would be easy to test if you were planning to keep the upper one anyway.
Sluggonaut
Goblin Guru
You need an NA intake. ZZP includes a Saab intake manifold in their LSJ Complete Turbo swap kit. OTTP also offers an LSJ Turbo intake manifold.
For me it came down to cost - I had all the parts I needed. Trying to add the DF A2W setup was going to be over $1k to try to make it work versus the parts I had on hand that bolted right up. I'm running E85 so that may contribute to keeping things cool, but I've had no issues.
I saw that Saab intake from ZZP...Do you know if that manifold still retains the ability to used those Laminova cores and a dual pass end plate? I know the whole point of the modified intake is A2A but I wonder if you could achieve even colder air with both in place. Who knows, maybe it would be so little of a gain that it wouldn't be worth it.
Sluggonaut
Goblin Guru
No, the NA intakes don't have laminova cores in them and the dual pass endplate is specific to the LSJ intake.
It's not that you can't use the LSJ intake with DF's A2W setup, but you'll have to engineer a custom setup to run them. My concern was whether one pump could run both in series, or the amount of work/cost to run both systems in parallel (2nd heat exchanger, pump, etc.).
I was actually doing some research on this last night. I’m no physicist, but the OTTP manifold sure does look like it would flow better. Even it though still appears to have room for improvement. Does anyone know anything about the science behind intake manifold design? I was thinking of trying to fabricate my own
Desert Sasqwatch
Goblin Guru
Ebay has lots of used ones for sale, some looking to be in better condition than others, but not too expensive.