Jim McDonald // Extended Track // '09 HHR SS/TC Automatic

[Torchandregdoc]

Using a Saab B207 intake manifold will place the throttle body on top rather than underneath, which would also help with clearance issues. It's why I swapped the Saab part into my piecemeal turbo kit over the LDK intake manifold I got from ZZP. You know, if/when I get around to adding boost.

Is the B207 intake manifold the same as that of the 9-3? I bought a manifold for the 9-3, still have it, and it's not at all the same as an lnf.

We are running a motor from Atk that they call a LDK/LHU, but it's really not. It is a 3 Gen sandcast block with a LNF head and lnf intake manifold. The same manifold that zzp is selling. The 9-3 saab intake manifold doesn't fit this motor either.

If you have more accurate info than I do, please let me know. I tried to go down this road and couldn't make it work.

LNF Intake Manifold Options

I have really tried to do my homework on this, but can't find answers. Ive seen rumors and been told that you can use a saab intake manifold on a LNF to solve the bottom mount throttle body/fuel tank problem. I'd like to put the heat exchanger over the engine but dont want the 180 in charge...

dfkitcar.com

 

[Grimesy]

I know I need to do an index and a wrap up post, but I'm still working on it. We just got the new motor in and have about half of the break in miles behind us.

A NA/Auto motor will not have the clearance issues that we did. It's the turbo plumbing that caused the problem because it has to make a u-turn in front of the motor.

Time. I need more time.......and less heat. 119 today.

I'll DM you to answer some of your questions.

Hey, I am looking into the possibility/difficulty associated with using my daily HHR for the donor. It is an 09 HHR 2.2 NA/Manual. Since you were the only one to do this yet, as far as my limited forum searching could tell, could you provide some input?

Could you tell me done areas that you ran into that required modifying or sourcing a Cobalt/G5 specific part? Any help is greatly appreciated. I am a planner and would like to get a good idea before I proceed.

Side note: any update on that index? I apologize if it is elsewhere on the forum that I have not yet found.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

Hey, I am looking into the possibility/difficulty associated with using my daily HHR for the donor. It is an 09 HHR 2.2 NA/Manual. Since you were the only one to do this yet, as far as my limited forum searching could tell, could you provide some input?

Could you tell me done areas that you ran into that required modifying or sourcing a Cobalt/G5 specific part? Any help is greatly appreciated. I am a planner and would like to get a good idea before I proceed.

Side note: any update on that index? I apologize if it is elsewhere on the forum that I have not yet found.

I think most of the issues were outlined in our build log. I know it would be a terrible long read trying to find everything. It was a miracle that I did the log at all, much less the index. It's still on my to do list, but everything is more fun than creating that index. Our build is now a couple years old, so I'm not sure I remember everything. What I'd like to do is walk, er uh roll around the car and talk to you on video chat and I can just pint things out as I walk around. Would that work for you? Or, I could possible do a video and throw it on YouTube? That would probably be better for posterity.

 

[Grimesy]

I think most of the issues were outlined in our build log. I know it would be a terrible long read trying to find everything. It was a miracle that I did the log at all, much less the index. It's still on my to do list, but everything is more fun than creating that index. Our build is now a couple years old, so I'm not sure I remember everything. What I'd like to do is walk, er uh roll around the car and talk to you on video chat and I can just pint things out as I walk around. Would that work for you? Or, I could possible do a video and throw it on YouTube? That would probably be better for posterity.

Thanks for the quick reply!

After perusing through your build thread, I just wanted to check if I missed anything so I thought I'd check into the index.

If you were willing to do a YT video, I think that'd be really great! Not only for my purposes, but I'd love to see a showcase of your build.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

Knocked off one of the old todo's today. 4 hours from start to finish. We've been putting this one off simply because the material is expensive and you got one shot when you make that final cut. 3 templates and 2 misdrilled holes, bit I think I like the way it turned out. 80mph baseball caps and free conversation.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[Ghostknife]

Knocked off one of the old todo's today. 4 hours from start to finish. We've been putting this one off simply because the material is expensive and you got one shot when you make that final cut. 3 templates and 2 misdrilled holes, bit I think I like the way it turned out. 80mph baseball caps and free conversation.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Beautiful! Question for ya, do you find that the heat from the engine is pulled into the cab more now due to the low pressure zone behind the windshield? I have this issue with my SxS with the full windshield, that and the dust gets pulled in too but I don't see you bombing down dusty trails lol

 

[Gtstorey]

I get more heat pulled in by my driver side half windshield than I do with a full. At least across my legs.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

Beautiful! Question for ya, do you find that the heat from the engine is pulled into the cab more now due to the low pressure zone behind the windshield? I have this issue with my SxS with the full windshield, that and the dust gets pulled in too but I don't see you bombing down dusty trails lol

I was really afraid of that, but I don't think we are getting anything coming from behind. We drove it on mountain roads yesterday from 65-80 degrees. It was awesome, however, with a windshield, the heat from the radiator has nothing to carry it away, it just hangs around you. When we started coming down off the mountain, it started to get very hot. When we got to 95 degrees outside temp, I was miserable.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Jim, did you close off the front firewall up to the bottom side of the hood? You may want to get the footwell cover to enclose it and install some cool air vents.

Lonny was working on something a few weeks ago. Maybe if he has them done for the Goblin fest in October this can be shared with the forum?

I don't even have my Goblin put together yet and I'm already dreading the task of trying to keep my toes from melting and getting air into the cockpit.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

Jim, did you close off the front firewall up to the bottom side of the hood? You may want to get the footwell cover to enclose it and install some cool air vents.

Lonny was working on something a few weeks ago. Maybe if he has them done for the Goblin fest in October this can be shared with the forum?

I don't even have my Goblin put together yet and I'm already dreading the task of trying to keep my toes from melting and getting air into the cockpit.

Because we didn't use the DF windshield mount, our hood is still farely flimsy, so I am thinking I'm going to glass a bulk head in to the hood right above the front bulkhead and then attach lift struts from the frame to the new bulkhead on the hood. That will shut down that airflow and then put some vents in the lower bulkhead to let warm air in on the winter time.

 

[Moparmat2000]

Ha... , yeah, theres a bunch of wire there.

The DF guys are offering a bunch of extra service by checking out the compatability of Cobalt hardware on the HHR platform, so I'm going to send it to them.

Was the HHR wiring and hardware compatible? Just wondering as my old daily driver HHR 2.2 5 speed N/A is going to be my main donor. I also have a list of compatible pieces out of the HHR based off rockauto catalogs.

 

[Gtstorey]

Not really much to make the wiring incompatible. You just might not be able to us the DF videos to modify the harness. But the only real "integration" points are the lights, so that should be pretty simple.

 

[ah.b.normal]

Was the HHR wiring and hardware compatible? Just wondering as my old daily driver HHR 2.2 5 speed N/A is going to be my main donor. I also have a list of compatible pieces out of the HHR based off rockauto catalogs.

Of the several donors and cadavers I have torn down on Project GOB-BALT I had one HHR. I have found that the HHR and the Cobalt wiring harnesses are very different! The HHR fuse box and bulk connectors are not the same as the Cobalt/G5 and do not interchange. The electric power steering system though very similar, are clocked different. The gas pedal mechanism bolts to the firewall and is very different as well as the gas pedal electrical connectors. The Clutch and Brake pedal box is different than Cobalt and so probably unusable for a Goblin. Same for the Parking brake mechanism. I think the manual shifter and cables are similar to Cobalt but you will use different cables on a Goblin. If you scrap the HHR save the wiring because many of the sensors and their plugs are the same.(get a plastic 1' X 2' storage tote to store all the excess wiring) There are probably switches and other bits that are used in both. HHR engine and trans are the same but that is as far as I've researched. Obviously the sub frame is the same along with the knuckles, lower control arms, steering rack and struts; though the springs may be different? I would look for a Cobalt/G5 donor, remembering that since you have a running HHR you don't care about engine and trans. (So you should be able to find a very cheap donor! Check transmission shops and among the dead at the backs of "pay as you go" used car lots.) In Cobalt wiring 05,06 wiring is very similar. I've found many changes in 07,08 and 09, but those are generally similar. SIMILAR BUT NOT THE SAME! A single donor will cut down on mismatched wiring! And helps focus troubleshooting later. Message me with exact questions and I'll be glad to share what I have learned. Go to the Forum: Other Builds and look up my GOB-BALT thread, there may be clues for you there as well. I have stretched half of the wiring from the engine compartment to the mid engine position, looks like misery and it can be! Patience! It is not an easy project to build a Goblin but in my opinion, but worth it! because you got to build it as you wanted. IF you go in to this project as a challenge and forget about re-sale-ability and re-sale-value you can have fun. I doubt my finished GOB-BALT will ever have another owner and I could care less! I'm building this car just for me!

 

[Torchandregdoc]

Was the HHR wiring and hardware compatible? Just wondering as my old daily driver HHR 2.2 5 speed N/A is going to be my main donor. I also have a list of compatible pieces out of the HHR based off rockauto catalogs.

I have most everything documented in this thread , but my question I guess is "why use the HHR" other than possession . It will require a bunch of modifications to use the hhr wiring. The only reason I did was so I could have the lnf/ auto trans.

You will need to make new mounts for the main fuse box , steering controller is different and will require a custom mount . You can cut out the cobalt tpps plugs and put it on the hhr wiring but it works and the same goes for the instrument cluster. You will also have to modify the bpps mount. It's opposite the cobalt . It goes from 0-5v rather than 5-0v. I would guess you can use the DF videos for the wiring as far as position goes wire colors will be different . You will need to use schematics .

If I had to do it again, I would use the hhr motor , trans , power steering and wiring/fuse boxe and bcm, and use a pick apart for every other cobalt part. But only if you are doing the lnf/auto, otherwise you are adding hundreds of extra hours and a bunch of creative fab work. I have hundreds and hundreds of hours thinking and working hand in hand with Lonnie.

I don't mind you using me as a resource ,I'll tell you all I know, but in my opinion , if you aren't going boosted ,sell the hhr , find a N/A cobalt and start a straight forward build. You will have to love building and innovating if you use the hhr .

 

[Moparmat2000]

I was thinking since the HHR is a 5 speed and a non ABS vehicle, plus I have owned and maintained since new I know its history. Engine runs great, trans shifts fine, and like my old Chevy pickup that's a 5 speed that I also bought new. I know how to drive a stick that I dont wear out clutches. Sounds funny but it's TRUE. I pulled the trans on my pickup at 125K for a throw out bearing rattle. Was going to change the clutch when I was in there. I measured the old and new discs with a caliper. The old disc had only .001" wear compared to the replacement, flywheel and pressure plate were like new as well. Since the HHR has been mine since new and also well maintained and clutch not abused, it's the perfect donor. If what your saying means I should find a cobalt of the same year and "dewire" it plus pull the rest of the bits from it, then why not. I have a salvage yard in my hometown that's 10 acres of cars. I should be able to find a 2008 cobalt 5 speed.

As far as welding and fabrication go, I work as a metal fabricator for an airline, and have access to shears and metal brakes to make whatever I need. Heres chassis stiffener plates I made out of 3/32" steel sheet for a 69 barracuda project. I have done plenty of welding on automotive projects. My weapon of choice is a Lincoln with MIG attachment. I plan on modding the chassis where needed to suit and mocking it up before I take it apart for either painting or powder coating.

 

[Gtstorey]

I would probably try to find the cheapest non running Cobalt you can find and mix the parts with your HHR.

 

[Moparmat2000]

I will be looking for a severely wrecked one that's a 2008 5 speed CoPart here I come, unless I find one in my junky. Will the HHR 5 speed ECM play nice with a 2008 cobalt 5 speed harness? The easy answer to a lot of these questions can be found in my friends Hollander interchange manual. I plan to go and look through it today. I know or certain that I will need the cobalt throttle pedal, brake and clutch pedals, parking brake handle and cables

The cobalt master cylinder, brake booster, and clutch master cylinder I plan to get from rockauto.

The instrument cluster I may get out of a cobalt, or I may make my own. I have made and wired in a couple custom gage panels. The last one I did was autometer Z series gages wired into a Chevy S-10 blazer with a tuned port 350 V8

 

[Gtstorey]

I doubt the harness will be a direct swap, GM just doesn't seem to work that way, but it's not impossible. Probably would be better to use the Cobalt ECM with your motor. Should be pretty much a direct swap if you get the same motor size and similar year.

Facebook Market place is probably the best place to find a non-runner cheap.

 

[Moparmat2000]

Going to still check my friends hollander interchange book today on the ECMs. The vehicle type, wiring, and ECM compatibility from what all are saying seems to be the issue. The hard parts like pedals and such are not a big deal junkyard stuff. As far as selling off what's not needed on the HHR, the body is loaded with hail damage, and has a cracked windshield. The kids wrecked the interior when they were little. When I'm done with it as a donor I will cut it up and toss it on my scrap trailer. I have a new DD that stays in the garage. Kids are now grown up a bit, and I am smarter. I have pet seat covers on the back seat for them and it's seats have been saturated with scotchguard.

 

[Torchandregdoc]

I will be looking for a severely wrecked one that's a 2008 5 speed CoPart here I come, unless I find one in my junky. Will the HHR 5 speed ECM play nice with a 2008 cobalt 5 speed harness? The easy answer to a lot of these questions can be found in my friends Hollander interchange manual. I plan to go and look through it today. I know or certain that I will need the cobalt throttle pedal, brake and clutch pedals, parking brake handle and cables

The cobalt master cylinder, brake booster, and clutch master cylinder I plan to get from rockauto.

The instrument cluster I may get out of a cobalt, or I may make my own. I have made and wired in a couple custom gage panels. The last one I did was autometer Z series gages wired into a Chevy S-10 blazer with a tuned port 350 V8

If it was me, I would use the hhr engine trans suspension steering rack and then source the cobalt parts however. I think I decided the engine harnesses are the same. We have a Pic-a-part here that sells all parts for $5-15. If you have something like that , for $500 you'll get everything you need. You'll need everything electrical, ecm, bcm, fuse box( special mount for hhr )steering column(I had to use the hhr column for the ignition switch for vats. Special mounting bracket ), pedal box(completely different), tpps, fuel pump (hhr doesn't fit the tank), power steering(requires a special mount for the hhr controller. Cooling fan. Hhr is variable speed. I had to build a complete core support for that.

It sounds like this build is right up your alley . I think you will enjoy it. I did. But that being said, using the hhr was a lot. There were problems and hurdles with most components . I wound up with a really cool very smooth shifting highly tunable lnf/turbo/auto, but it definitely came at a price. You can do it no doubt. I'm no genius , but if your going NA, you may ask yourself why about half way through. Before your stsrt, take the time to read my complete build log. I documented most everything , I think.