Texas Revoking Titles (and how you can help)
- Thread starter Adam
- Start date
Rttoys
Goblin Guru
It was recently discussed here
Devonrex
Member
I had to add all the emissions equipment; it was easy to add. The hard part was getting the emission in the 'Ready' state for the inspection. It takes ~200 miles sometimes. The DMV lady told me afterward, she would have issued a temp plate so I could drive it enough to set the emissions.
Joebob
Goblin Guru
My funny story and your mileage may vary, is that I was told by the inspection station that a safety only is needed for the initial and the 1 year check up as it is a new car and therefore is not emission tested. I did do a safety only inspection as I was not in a ready state (have Cats and EVAP) and passed the registration process with the state (in Houston). I did have the cat pass a ready check and had my second inspection done as emission even when told was not required.
I also got a temp 30 day tag to drive it around.
Short story, you should not need the emission stuff right now to get road legal but you may have to find a long term solution.
Joe
I also got a temp 30 day tag to drive it around.
Short story, you should not need the emission stuff right now to get road legal but you may have to find a long term solution.
Joe
Rttoys
Goblin Guru
For the park brake, you can pull the handle out of any cobalt and add aftermarket cables shown in this page.
You will need the park brake kit from DF though, which is different rear calipers and some brackets.
You will need the park brake kit from DF though, which is different rear calipers and some brackets.
Can you PM me the relevant info required for this also? I am getting to the point where I am needing to get my ducks in a row
Do they have contacts all over? Or is Charlotte the POC for all registrations in TX? I am in the Dallas area
A parking brake is required to be registered in TX?
Joebob
Goblin Guru
VTR-64 does not actually call out to inspect for a parking brake, but that may be listed in some of the other laws on the books, such as a windshield wipers are looked for but not needed if you have no windshield. No windshield is required for registration.
I have a list of what I brought based on the reading of this forum chain.
http://dfkitcar.com/forum/index.php?threads/joebobs-build-log-ss-na-auto-extended-city-frame-270.2259/post-66719
Charlotte is the regional manager over Houston and may not work for Dallas.
Once I go through this registration process, I'll likely create a thread outlining my experience on what are the current needs to get up and registered. Thank you for your response, greatly appreciated.
Joebob
Goblin Guru
My two fumbles were that my original inspection was with the Cobalt VIN and it needs to be with lots of zeros before the DFGBXXXX plate and listed as an ASVE (assembled vehicle) and that for all the tile forms you have just the DFGBXXXX tag VIN without all the zeros.
Other than that come prepared to argue and challenge any negative decision by showing them the law and justification against any possible "Sandrail" or off highway use only, and it should go smooth.
In the end one clerk asked how wide the tires were and another clerk to pick up the plates stated that it looks fun.
Joe
Other than that come prepared to argue and challenge any negative decision by showing them the law and justification against any possible "Sandrail" or off highway use only, and it should go smooth.
In the end one clerk asked how wide the tires were and another clerk to pick up the plates stated that it looks fun.
Joe
Rttoys
Goblin Guru
You will need to contact or go into you pr regional office.
and for locals down here, charlotte has retired and we don’t have a new contact yet.
Rttoys
Goblin Guru
Yes. And it’s useful too, if you have a man trans.
Rttoys
Goblin Guru
this is no lie here. You need to be beyond prepared for them. They are going to kick and scream trying to get out of doing it, or say “looks like fun” and rubber stamp everything.
I failed a inspection before due to removing the MAF sensor. I have less then a mile in my goblin at this point. How would I pass if it has that code? (I hear 80miles is required to clear codes)
This is what I was thinking, how did you end up proving this was your engine? All I have is a title for the cobalt I purchased
Need more details. Did they fail you on emissions readiness monitor incomplete, visual or a DTC?
Better question is how are you running a T/SS without the MAF and why?
Good afternoon guys. I had a fun day at the DMV yesterday and I think I have most of it figured out. After going back and forth with Jason and Russell yesterday, I was going to wait to post this but I did a lot of research yesterday and I think I know what's going on and what to do.
LONG POST WARNING!
So, I'll start with my story. I went to the DMV with all of my information and everything. Boxes checked, extra info on motor, lots of photos, insurance (just in case), Bonded Title form prefilled out ( just in case). I thought it was a slam dunk. I had my ducks lined up and contacts ready in case there was an issue (including the head honcho Charlotte). Something came up that I didn't expect. I was told after some back and forth and the clerk talking to the head clerk and Charlotte that I could title my car but I could not register it. Keep in mind they don't register it there. I was concerned that the title they gave me would not allow me to register it. I heard the head clerk say sand rail and she was typing into her computer and looking stuff up. Charlotte specifically said that the Goblin is not street legal and never has been which is odd because Jason worked so closely with her to get his titled and registered. I even gave them his name to reference and it did no good. I'm getting pissed at this point and reach out to Jason and Russell. Then I showed them the letter that Russell received that Charlotte hand signed saying that he could register his vehicle. I was told by the clerk that it was a "form letter"... At this point I shut up because I was thinking at the time that maybe we fell through a loophole or something and I didn't want them to close that hole. This is incorrect and I wish I had done more reading before. I ended up submitting for the ASVE title and confirmed two or three times that they were sending it in for a Assembled Vehicle title. The Assembled Vehicle Title is the key.
After A LOT of reading and searching Texas Govt websites and DMV rules I've found the following.
Essentially, any vehicle that a hobbyist builds can be titled as an assembled:
Direct from the Texas Transportation Code RULE §217.3:
(5) Assembled vehicles.
(A) An assembled vehicle is a vehicle assembled from the three basic component parts (motor, frame, and body), except that a motorcycle must have a frame and motor, and a trailer or travel trailer will have no motor, and that is:
(i) assembled from new or used materials and parts by someone not regulated as a motor vehicle manufacturer;
(ii) altered or modified to the extent that it no longer reflects the original manufacturer's configuration; or
(iii) assembled from a kit even if a Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin or Manufacturer's Statement of Origin is provided.
Unless it falls under one of these exclusions:
Assembled vehicles. The title requirements for assembled vehicles are prescribed in Subchapter L of this title (relating to Assembled Vehicles).
(6) Not Eligible for Title. The following are not eligible for a Texas title regardless of the vehicle's previous title or registration in this or any other jurisdiction:
(A) vehicles that are missing or are stripped of their motor, frame, or body, to the extent that the vehicle loses its original identity or makes the vehicle unsafe for on-road operation as determined by the department;
(B) vehicles designed by the manufacturer for on-track racing only;
(C) vehicles designed or determined by the department to be for off-highway use only, unless specifically defined as a "motor vehicle" in Transportation Code Chapter 501; or
(D) vehicles assembled, built, constructed, rebuilt, or reconstructed in any manner with:
(i) a body or frame from a vehicle which is a "nonrepairable motor vehicle" as that term is defined in Transportation Code §501.091(9); or
(ii) a motor or engine from a vehicle which is flood damaged, water damaged, or any other term which may reasonably establish the vehicle from which the motor or engine was obtained is a loss due to a water related event.
This is from the Transportation Code, the Administrative Code that these rules were written from says the following:
Sec. 731.052. PROCEDURES AND REQUIREMENTS FOR TITLE AND REGISTRATION. (a) The board by rule shall establish procedures and requirements for:
(1) issuance of a title for an assembled vehicle; and
(2) registration of an assembled vehicle.
(b) Rules adopted under Subsection (a):
(1) may not exclude a type of assembled vehicle, other than an assembled vehicle described by Section 731.051(b), from eligibility for title and registration;
(2) must establish the form of a title issued for an assembled vehicle; and
(3) must exempt an assembled vehicle or a type of assembled vehicle from any provision of Chapter 501 or 502 that an assembled vehicle or type of assembled vehicle, by its nature, cannot comply with or otherwise meet the requirements of.
The underlined portion is important. Essentially, every car that's built that does not meet the exclusions is able to be titled AND REGISTERED under the Assembled Vehicle rules.
Additionally, the rules say that any car that is able to be titled as an assembled vehicle is capable of being registered for street use. They cannot exclude any type of car. It's not relevant if they call it a sandrail or buggy or anything else as long as the mfg of the kit or builder of the car didn't intent it to be used only offroad or on a racetrack.
Now, this is where it gets weird. If you search for "RULE §217.3 Buggy" or "RULE §217.3" it pulls up the old code that excludes buggys from being titled.
Texas Administrative Code
texreg.sos.state.tx.us
You have to specifically go to the Texas Administrative Code Website look up Title 43, Part 10, Chapter 217, Subchapter A, Rule 217.3 to get to the new rule.
Texas Administrative Code
texreg.sos.state.tx.us
My educated, or uneducated guess pending your opinion of me, is that Charlotte and the staff are still linked to the old rules and not pulling up the newly revised rules. They may have gotten a couple right but then after a long weekend got it wrong. The fact that the old rule is still up on the SOS website is the problem.
I'm still waiting to make sure my letter is the same as Jason's and Russel's but from my reading of all of the statues and rules, if it passes to be titled as an assembled vehicle, it can be registered. They should only be able to ask for more information or a revision to something to be able to title it. For instance, if they say it doesn't have a body and deny the title, take pictures with the hood on and resubmit. You never know when dealing with the DMV or State though.....
So, print out these new rules to take with you when you go to title your car. Don't talk about registration or worry about it. Don't respond if they ask about registration and just get the title. Ask specifically for an "Assembled Vehicle Title". If they say no you cannot title a buggy or sandrail, whip out the newly revised version of the Admin Code and Transportation Rule with the correct web address and fight it. Just make sure that they title it under an Assembled Vehicle and you should be good.
Also, just to clear things up, make sure you take pictures with the hood on if you have one. That is one of the excluding factors (it's listed as one of the parts of a car) but the way that the code reads, the body is only required if the car looses it's "identity". The Goblin does not need it's body and is still identifiable without a body, in fact a body is not part of the basic car as it's sold, so that should not be an excluding factor. I did not have pictures with my hood on so that might be part of why they started talking like they did. I did have my footwell cover on. We shall see.
Links to correct statutes and rules:
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/TN/htm/TN.501.htm Titles
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/TN/htm/TN.502.htm Registration
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/TN/htm/TN.731.htm Assembled Vehicles
https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=43&pt=10&ch=217&rl=3 Titles
https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=43&pt=10&ch=217&rl=23 Registration
https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.ViewTAC?tac_view=5&ti=43&pt=10&ch=217&sch=L&rl=Y Assembled Vehicles
Good luck everyone.
Well worth the read! Great job linking everything in one post! I was wanting to do this to make it easier on TX builders as I'm about to dive into this process now, thanks again!
Sorry, should have clarified. This was on dissasembly of the cobalt. I was removing stuff then realized, maybe I should get this inspected prior to disassembly. I had started removing parts (hood, intake, MAF), but when I went to get inspected, I failed due to "MAF sensor" I guess it through a code or something. I am not running my goblin without the maf. Sorry for the confusion