V1 Ecotec Oil pan

[David]

Hello everyone just figured i post this here incase someone is interested. There has been a couple of threads of guys wanting to upgrade there oil pan. To have more capacity and also better baffling. I might order one snice I always worried about the baffling in the pan.

They are using a OEM LDK/LHU pan with there custom made baffling.

Ecotec Oil Pan | OEM GM Race Oil Control Pan | BK Racing

Ecotec oil pan with BK Racing Oil Control System. Brand-new OEM GM cast aluminum pan helps improve oil control for racing.

bkracing.com

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Hmm, $250 for a stock oil pan and (assuming) a new top baffle (first pic in your post) that is factory stock - and a supplied second tin baffle (second pic) that sits lower in the sump on top of the pump pickup - their 'system'(?). The website indicates better oil control during braking, acceleration and turning. They cite circle track - so left turns that pushes the oil into the sump end of the pan this does make sense. What if you're turning right and for more than 3-4 or more seconds? A baffle in the sump that helps with left turns will not help oil move from the shallow side of the pan into the sump around the pickup. I'm not seeing the 'engineering' they make claim to that will prevent oil starvation. Centrifugal force cannot be overcome with a baffle in the oil pan sump.

But, one of these plumbed into the oil system properly can provide those extra seconds needed to prevent oil starvation.

Moroso Accumulators - Oil Systems, Pans, Pumps and Accessories - Moroso Shop/Browse

www.moroso.com

And it works in all dynamic directions - left, right, acceleration and braking. An oil accumulator is a proven remedy - I'm not saying extra baffling in the oil pan sump won't help, but it cannot help in every dynamic situation. An oil accumulator, IMO, is money better spent.

 

[David]

Hmm, $250 for a stock oil pan and (assuming) a new top baffle (first pic in your post) that is factory stock - and a supplied second tin baffle (second pic) that sits lower in the sump on top of the pump pickup - their 'system'(?). The website indicates better oil control during braking, acceleration and turning. They cite circle track - so left turns that pushes the oil into the sump end of the pan this does make sense. What if you're turning right and for more than 3-4 or more seconds? A baffle in the sump that helps with left turns will not help oil move from the shallow side of the pan into the sump around the pickup. I'm not seeing the 'engineering' they make claim to that will prevent oil starvation. Centrifugal force cannot be overcome with a baffle in the oil pan sump.

But, one of these plumbed into the oil system properly can provide those extra seconds needed to prevent oil starvation.

Moroso Accumulators - Oil Systems, Pans, Pumps and Accessories - Moroso Shop/Browse

www.moroso.com

And it works in all dynamic directions - left, right, acceleration and braking. An oil accumulator is a proven remedy - I'm not saying extra baffling in the oil pan sump won't help, but it cannot help in every dynamic situation.

Was thinking the same, the R&D doesn't seem like its all there. Great idea but like you said I think a accumulator is the best bet. I also want to see if I can get a custom oil pan gasket made. I hate RTV a nice gasket would be amazing.

 

[duthehustle93]

I really wish they'd sell the baffle only, it'd be a no brainer since there aren't really any good off the shelf options and that'd be very cheap. When I built my engine, I ended up fabbing something that's almost identical to what they have here. It seems to work fine, but I don't have any comparative before/after data. I opted for this route instead of an accusump or door style baffle because from what I've read these engines aren't known to have oil starvation issues. I think I remember reading this in a very credible source (it might have even been in the GM published ecotec building book?) that these aren't known to have starvation issues. If anyone has oil pressure logs that say otherwise please correct me so I can keep an eye on this, but I haven't seen oil pressure issues yet with my DIY baffle.

 

[95Blitz]

Why not just make the lower baffle?

 

[David]

Why not just make the lower baffle?

Not sure why they dont sell just the baffle. In my case I would still need to buy the new LDK/LHU pan has I currently have the LSJ one.

 

[RobC76]

Not sure why they dont sell just the baffle. In my case I would still need to buy the new LDK/LHU pan has I currently have the LSJ one.

according to a gm mechanic buddy of mine the oil pans have pressed in pickups now and you have to remove the pickup to install the lower baffle. I purchased one of these pans from BK Racing and got it on Friday. I think for the person just street driving hard the pan is a good solution but for road racing I agree with DS. I'm not using the BK Racing pan because I have an LNF which uses a different pan. It will fit however the LNF pan has a little bit more capacity. I decided to build a baffle for my factory LNF pan. The pickup has an O-ring and a stop, so it is not pressed in. I'll have it in cad tomorrow. If anyone wants the BK pan I would sell it for what I have in it ($230) and ship it free. Thanks

Top pan is the LNF
Middle pan is LSJ
Bottom pan is BK Racing

 

[David]

according to a gm mechanic buddy of mine the oil pans have pressed in pickups now and you have to remove the pickup to install the lower baffle. I purchased one of these pans from BK Racing and got it on Friday. I think for the person just street driving hard the pan is a good solution but for road racing I agree with DS. I'm not using the BK Racing pan because I have an LNF which uses a different pan. It will fit however the LNF pan has a little bit more capacity. I decided to build a baffle for my factory LNF pan. The pickup has an O-ring and a stop, so it is not pressed in. I'll have it in cad tomorrow. If anyone wants the BK pan I would sell it for what I have in it ($230) and ship it free. Thanks

Top pan is the LNF
Middle pan is LSJ
Bottom pan is BK Racing

Nice, I thought the LDK/LHU had the most capacity and the LSJ had more then LNF.

Im going to have to buy a spare oil pan so I can trace it to design a gasket. I hate using RTV, I currently have the pan leaking and I just installed it.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

@RobC76, agreed that the pan baffle is probably the best street solution. Plumbing an accumulator and remote oil filter system is a lot of extra work for the average builder. It has a greater chance of having a leak in all of the plumbing versus getting the oil pan sealed up.

One small point to add to this discussion, the oil accumulator adds extra oil capacity to the system. I will be installing the 1.5 quart version (there is a 3 quart version), adds this volume, plus the oil lines volume, plus the remote oil filter volume, to the stock oil system. On an Ecotec this should total about 7ish quarts for the whole setup? And yes all of the oil in the accumulator will be circulated through the system - not aging in the cylinder - as the oil gets pushed through the oiling system at engine start before the accumulator refills after start. Granted the volume of oil in the accumulator does not circulate during normal operation, but the oil filter and it's plumbing will add about 1 more quart to the circulating oil. Just wanted to add this info - not meant to push anyone into an oil accumulator.

 

[David]

@RobC76, agreed that the pan baffle is probably the best street solution. Plumbing an accumulator and remote oil filter system is a lot of extra work for the average builder. It has a greater chance of having a leak in all of the plumbing versus getting the oil pan sealed up.

One small point to add to this discussion, the oil accumulator adds extra oil capacity to the system. I will be installing the 1.5 quart version (there is a 3 quart version), adds this volume, plus the oil lines volume, plus the remote oil filter volume, to the stock oil system. On an Ecotec this should total about 7ish quarts for the whole setup? And yes all of the oil in the accumulator will be circulated through the system - not aging in the cylinder - as the oil gets pushed through the oiling system at engine start before the accumulator refills after start. Granted the volume of oil in the accumulator does not circulate during normal operation, but the oil filter and it's plumbing will add about 1 more quart to the circulating oil. Just wanted to add this info - not meant to push anyone into an oil accumulator.

I will most likely do a accumulator just want to bring up the oil pan just incase someone was interested. Im also running an external oil cooler so im already up on oil capacity as is.

 

[duthehustle93]

I hope I'm not turning this into an oil pan baffle vs. accumulator thread, but I want to add some context to promote baffles. Two of our race cars run an accumulator and they make a lot of sense for those cars, but they haven't been without their issues. One of them is a canton, and the other is a moroso. The canton one developed an oil leak after a couple years. It wasn't a big deal, but it decided to leak the night before a track day, so fixing that at 11PM was fun. The moroso is on an endurance car and that developed a slow leak on the air side after the first race. It's out of warranty so we tried pulling it apart to fix it. One of the guys on the team works at a hydraulic shop, so we tried replacing the seals in it, but it turns out the issue is that the oring groove was machined undersize. Currently, we just re-prime the accumulator between tech and the race and it makes it through the weekend. Then there's the mounting location/ball valve access... you shouldn't put them in the driver compartment (pressurized oil in driver compartment is a big no-no) but the electronic valve for remote mounting is known to fail and also be slow to react. I love these things, and especially on the enduro car, they make a lot of sense. They're cheap, simple, and work great when they're not leaking. However, baffles are BS-free and awesome if that's all you need. We've always had great luck with baffles, and only move up to an accumulator when we need extra oil capacity and/or baffling the pan isn't an option.

 

[David]

I hope I'm not turning this into an oil pan baffle vs. accumulator thread, but I want to add some context to promote baffles. Two of our race cars run an accumulator and they make a lot of sense for those cars, but they haven't been without their issues. One of them is a canton, and the other is a moroso. The canton one developed an oil leak after a couple years. It wasn't a big deal, but it decided to leak the night before a track day, so fixing that at 11PM was fun. The moroso is on an endurance car and that developed a slow leak on the air side after the first race. It's out of warranty so we tried pulling it apart to fix it. One of the guys on the team works at a hydraulic shop, so we tried replacing the seals in it, but it turns out the issue is that the oring groove was machined undersize. Currently, we just re-prime the accumulator between tech and the race and it makes it through the weekend. Then there's the mounting location/ball valve access... you shouldn't put them in the driver compartment (pressurized oil in driver compartment is a big no-no) but the electronic valve for remote mounting is known to fail and also be slow to react. I love these things, and especially on the enduro car, they make a lot of sense. They're cheap, simple, and work great when they're not leaking. However, baffles are BS-free and awesome if that's all you need. We've always had great luck with baffles, and only move up to an accumulator when we need extra oil capacity and/or baffling the pan isn't an option.

Let the battle begin lol

I was figuring getting the baffle wouldn't hurt and still could use the accumulator if I wanted to.

 

[RobC76]

@RobC76, agreed that the pan baffle is probably the best street solution. Plumbing an accumulator and remote oil filter system is a lot of extra work for the average builder. It has a greater chance of having a leak in all of the plumbing versus getting the oil pan sealed up.

One small point to add to this discussion, the oil accumulator adds extra oil capacity to the system. I will be installing the 1.5 quart version (there is a 3 quart version), adds this volume, plus the oil lines volume, plus the remote oil filter volume, to the stock oil system. On an Ecotec this should total about 7ish quarts for the whole setup? And yes all of the oil in the accumulator will be circulated through the system - not aging in the cylinder - as the oil gets pushed through the oiling system at engine start before the accumulator refills after start. Granted the volume of oil in the accumulator does not circulate during normal operation, but the oil filter and it's plumbing will add about 1 more quart to the circulating oil. Just wanted to add this info - not meant to push anyone into an oil accumulator.

I ordered that accumulator you have in your build thread DS. Love your build thread by the way. Really well done!
I'm also going to make a baffle tray. Have you done any research on the oil cooler itself. I didn't see that in the thread anywhere.
Thanks as always this is good stuff. I like the dry sump idea but the price on that is fairly ridiculous I believe.

 

[RobC76]

Let the battle begin lol

I was figuring getting the baffle wouldn't hurt and still could use the accumulator if I wanted to.

Glad you started this thread!

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

I hope I'm not turning this into an oil pan baffle vs. accumulator thread, but I want to add some context to promote baffles. Two of our race cars run an accumulator and they make a lot of sense for those cars, but they haven't been without their issues. One of them is a canton, and the other is a moroso. The canton one developed an oil leak after a couple years. It wasn't a big deal, but it decided to leak the night before a track day, so fixing that at 11PM was fun. The moroso is on an endurance car and that developed a slow leak on the air side after the first race. It's out of warranty so we tried pulling it apart to fix it. One of the guys on the team works at a hydraulic shop, so we tried replacing the seals in it, but it turns out the issue is that the oring groove was machined undersize. Currently, we just re-prime the accumulator between tech and the race and it makes it through the weekend. Then there's the mounting location/ball valve access... you shouldn't put them in the driver compartment (pressurized oil in driver compartment is a big no-no) but the electronic valve for remote mounting is known to fail and also be slow to react. I love these things, and especially on the enduro car, they make a lot of sense. They're cheap, simple, and work great when they're not leaking. However, baffles are BS-free and awesome if that's all you need. We've always had great luck with baffles, and only move up to an accumulator when we need extra oil capacity and/or baffling the pan isn't an option.

No argument, just getting good information out on the forum. Both systems have their good points and it's up to anyone interested to decide. It's all good!

 

[David]

I ordered that accumulator you have in your build thread DS. Love your build thread by the way. Really well done!
I'm also going to make a baffle tray. Have you done any research on the oil cooler itself. I didn't see that in the thread anywhere.
Thanks as always this is good stuff. I like the dry sump idea but the price on that is fairly ridiculous I believe.

What type of cooler your looking to do. Im using a liquid oil cooler, haven't had the chance to get some data.

 

[David]

Glad you started this thread!

I love picking everyone brain as they are smarter then me. My ass is always trying to look outside the box and create new **** thats not needed lol

 

[RobC76]

What type of cooler your looking to do. Im using a liquid oil cooler, haven't had the chance to get some data.

Looking for ideas on cooler. Was thinking air since the water is already 200 degrees but then again oil needs to get hot enough to burn moisture out. Oil thermostats are a not cheap but that’s also an option. Hope the pump has enough nuts to push the oil through all these fittings and parts lol.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Just general info for readers: The oil heat exchanger on the engine keeps the oil in the correct temp range (210-220) for optimal lubrication, plus it brings the oil up to temp more rapidly after start. This is ideal for a street engine. A dedicated race Goblin could benefit from a true oil cooler, but keep in mind too cold oil (below 180) is almost as bad as too warm oil (above 240) for proper lubrication.

Reducing the radiator coolant operating temp could in turn reduce the temp of the engine oil, though to a lesser degree. Replacing the factory 195-205 degree thermostat with a 180-185 degree thermostat - paired with the correct radiator fan setting (ON at 195-200 instead of 210-215) - and proper radiator airflow could reduce the coolant temp by as much as 15 degrees in operation. Which by default could reduce the engine oil temp by 5-10 degrees using the stock HE - in theory. I don't know of anyone who has done the actual measurements for before and after changing out the thermostat, but this would be great information to post on the forum if someone did try this.

 

[Gtstorey]

My oil temps measured at the sump drain are always on the low side of good, even on the hottest days. This is street driving though and not much time spent in traffic.

I would check current oil temps in your worst conditions before I spent money on an oil cooler.