Ark's City Goblin #187 (2008 SS/TC donor)
- Thread starter Ark :D
- Start date
If there is an Air Pump relay in the box, pull it and retest. Assuming you don't have an Air Pump relay or the chatter is still there we will need to change gears.
There should be no load on the relay at all at this point, so the issue has to be a lack of current/bad connection getting to the relay or more likely to the PCM or a bad ground to the PCM. This problem very may be upstream in the BCM or further as the instrument cluster is not acting as we would expect. It also bothers me that you had a blown fuse in the first place.
There should be no load on the relay at all at this point, so the issue has to be a lack of current/bad connection getting to the relay or more likely to the PCM or a bad ground to the PCM. This problem very may be upstream in the BCM or further as the instrument cluster is not acting as we would expect. It also bothers me that you had a blown fuse in the first place.
Ark :D
Goblin Guru
The "AIR PUMP" space in the fuse box is empty, so nothing to pull.
The only fuse I had blown was the Horn fuse. The other "blown fuse" was just a miscommunication. I had tested with the fuse pulled from the BCM, while you were expecting the test to be with the fuse installed. I retested with the fuse installed afterward and got the expected +12v on both sides of the fuse.
Ark :D
Goblin Guru
On another note, I really needed a moral victory this week, since I took the whole week off in anticipation of getting my first start in. I wrapped up the front suspension and brakes today, getting the car down onto its front two tires for the first time.
They need some camber adjustment (four complete turns out on all the outer rod ends does not seem right), and I'm sure the alignment is off but that's all down the road. For now, I am just happy to have gotten something done for the week.
The ground clearance is pretty good. Also I will have to find a way to prevent the steering wheel from being turned too far. Very, very close to the end of the range of the steering wheel, the inside of the front wheel touches the upper control arm. Will probably need spacers.
They need some camber adjustment (four complete turns out on all the outer rod ends does not seem right), and I'm sure the alignment is off but that's all down the road. For now, I am just happy to have gotten something done for the week.
The ground clearance is pretty good. Also I will have to find a way to prevent the steering wheel from being turned too far. Very, very close to the end of the range of the steering wheel, the inside of the front wheel touches the upper control arm. Will probably need spacers.
Desert Sasqwatch
Goblin Guru
Small victories will win the war. Hang in there. I see some color blocks on the hood, are you still deciding on a body color?
BTW, when the suspension is final adjusted be sure the heim joints are flat to ensure you don't have any binding during suspension travel - see the third photo you posted.
Ark :D
Goblin Guru
Yep, I threw on 12 (13) samples of Avery Dennison wrap. Some of them are immediate No's but a like a few of them. Leaning toward Rushing Riptide, Rising Sun, or Lightning Ridge, all in gloss, right now.
Noted on the Heim joints. I just went and re-jammed the nuts, using a wrench to hold the Heim joints this time. I'll be mindful of that in the future.
Briann1177
Goblin Guru
If there are thoughts that there is a bad ground on the ECM, you can take another small wire, attach one end to the yellow wire at ECM X2/58 or fuse box X5/E2, and hold the other end to ground. If the chatter stops, then it could be as easy as the ECM ground. Or you could still have deeper issues.
Last edited:
Ark :D
Goblin Guru
Yep, thanks, I've got them set aside for when I do my adjusting.
I'll give this a try tomorrow!
Briann1177
Goblin Guru
It looks like the grounds for the ECM are X2/1,2,4. Those three grounds join up and run through your engine-to-body harness connector on pin H and then to ground. So ECM X2/1,2,4 --> pin H --> ground.
Check all of those points too.
Check all of those points too.
Ark :D
Goblin Guru
I'm not going to be able to test running my own ground from ECM X2 pin 58 or fuse box X5 pin E2 until lunchtime, but I did retest ECM X2 1, 2, and 4, as well as pin H in the body-to-engine connector. All show continuity to ground.
Ark :D
Goblin Guru
So, I'm not sure how I am going to run my own ground from ECM X2 58, being that the connector back is closed and the pin is very small.
Fuse box X5 E2 is, according to my diagram, a thick power wire for the ABS system and was cut from the Goblin harness. Are you thinking of a different connector? Different pin?
Fuse box X5 E2 is, according to my diagram, a thick power wire for the ABS system and was cut from the Goblin harness. Are you thinking of a different connector? Different pin?
Briann1177
Goblin Guru
I'm looking at my '09 service manual. Your '08 might be slightly different, but I wouldn't think so for that particular circuit. I could be wrong though.
Since you tested the ECM grounds, I'm not even sure how valuable of a test it would be to run that other ground wire. Fuse box X5/E2 should be the yellow wire that controls the low power side of the relay. The ECM switches a ground on that wire and that activates the powertrain relay. That particular yellow wire should go from ECM X2/58 --> fuse box X5/E2 --> powertrain relay.
If the relay is chattering, then the ignition voltage to the ECM should also chatter on pins 3, 5, 6. Depending on your voltmeter and how responsive it is, you might be able to detect the voltage cutting in and out. But I thought you said it was steady in an earlier post?
Ark :D
Goblin Guru
Do you possibly mean fuse box X5 E5?
(Thanx again BAR-AIR!)
For the record, my meter is a cheap POS. So I imagine it's not great. I'm probably going to take the harness out of the car and just go back over it, and retrace my steps through the videos. Not sure what else to do at this point.
Briann1177
Goblin Guru
I'm not sure how similar BAR-AIR's notes are to the turbos. Keep in mind his notes are for the 2.2L
Briann1177
Goblin Guru
Refresh my memory, have you tried swapping the power train relay out with another one?
I would pull the relay out and start doing some diagnostics in the fuse box.
1. Turn your key on and verify you have <5 ohms on pin 85 of the fuse box pin and chassis ground. Verify that it goes open with the key off. *EDIT* You'll probably have to jumper pins 87 & 30 first to ensure the ECM gets the correct prerequisite battery voltage. See thought #5.
2. Verify you have battery voltage on pin 86 at all times on the fuse box pin.
3. Verify you have battery voltage on pin 87 at all times on the fuse box pin.
4. Verify you have ~160 ohms between pins 85 and 86 on the actual relay pins.
5. Run a jumper wire between pins 87 and 30 in the fuse box. This will completely bypass the ECM signal to turn on that relay. You can do that to see if that makes a difference in the overall picture.
The relays have pin numbers on the bottom.
I would pull the relay out and start doing some diagnostics in the fuse box.
1. Turn your key on and verify you have <5 ohms on pin 85 of the fuse box pin and chassis ground. Verify that it goes open with the key off. *EDIT* You'll probably have to jumper pins 87 & 30 first to ensure the ECM gets the correct prerequisite battery voltage. See thought #5.
2. Verify you have battery voltage on pin 86 at all times on the fuse box pin.
3. Verify you have battery voltage on pin 87 at all times on the fuse box pin.
4. Verify you have ~160 ohms between pins 85 and 86 on the actual relay pins.
5. Run a jumper wire between pins 87 and 30 in the fuse box. This will completely bypass the ECM signal to turn on that relay. You can do that to see if that makes a difference in the overall picture.
The relays have pin numbers on the bottom.
Last edited: