V1 Ark's City Goblin #187 (2008 SS/TC donor)

[Lonny]

If the screw is broke off in the sensor you can hold a soldering against the screw until the loctite melts and the screw will spin out without much force.

 

[Ark :D]

If the screw is broke off in the sensor you can hold a soldering against the screw until the loctite melts and the screw will spin out without much force.

Great idea, I knew the locktite would melt with heat but all I could think of was my blue wrench, which probably would melt a lot more than just the locktite. I will give that a shot.

A couple things:

Just realized I do not have the four studs that go between the exhaust manifold and the DF-supplied exhaust. Can anyone make a recommendation on replacements? Also, should there be a flange/spacer between the two, or maybe a gasket?

On the topic of starters, I decided to look at whether the relay was working or not. I am not sure which relay it is, so I went to the starter instead, figuring I could test pins in the connector for voltage to see what was happening. I was a little surprised to see, the starter connector is only a single pin, so it must be getting ground when the key is turned to the crank position. I ran a long wire between that single-pin connector to where the key is so I could test ... I put one probe from my tester against the wire, and the other probe against known-good ground. I should have gotten a continuity tone upon turning the key, right? I did not, so I can only presume something is stopping the car from cranking other than the starter.

I wanted to address the below picture. I've had this saved on my computer since I was taking apart my first donor over a year ago. The bottom pole on the starter is labeled "Positive to motor", but mine is grounded. So, is the picture labeled wrong or do I have something wacky going on?



I have an ELM327 OBDII module that I've used for clearing/monitoring codes on my Fords, forever. It's been with me through five Mustangs, my wife's Focus, and now with our Explorer and C-Max. Works great, always has. But now, I can't get it to connect to the ECM on the Goblin. The continuity of the data wires is there, making me think maybe the ECM is not getting power or is possibly even bad? Of course, it could also be the OBDII app I am using on my phone; I had to download a new one because my "main" one is for Ford only. Is there a pin I can test for 12v in the ECM harness, to make sure it's getting power?

A heartfelt thank-you, forum. Best community I've ever been a part of on the internet.

 

[Lonny]

Everything you're describing sounds very familiar. One of our customers recently had the same symptoms. I will see if I can find his messages and get him to chime in or see how he fixed it.

 

[Ross]

The only ground on a starter motor is the metal motor frame touching the engine casting.
All the brass bolts on back are positives.
The battery + comes in the top, and bounces off to the fuse box.
When the solenoid gets power from the key, then it clicks, and power now travels down the green path, to the starter motor.

Also, should there be a flange/spacer between the two, or maybe a gasket? yes, a gasket is needed.

On the topic of starters, I decided to look at whether the relay was working or not. I am not sure which relay it is, I think it is just the solenoid on the starter that is the relay. You won't find a relay in the fuse box. so I went to the starter instead, figuring I could test pins in the connector for voltage to see what was happening. I was a little surprised to see, the starter connector is only a single pin, so it must be getting ground when the key is turned to the crank position. No. It gets power when the key is turned. I ran a long wire between that single-pin connector to where the key is so I could test ... I put one probe from my tester against the wire, and the other probe against known-good ground. I should have gotten a continuity tone upon turning the key, right? No. I did not, so I can only presume something is stopping the car from cranking other than the starter. If you supply 12V+ to the solenoid, then it should run the starter motor.

I wanted to address the below picture. I've had this saved on my computer since I was taking apart my first donor over a year ago. The bottom pole on the starter is labeled "Positive to motor", but mine is grounded. The starter motor is a low resistance connection to ground, but it will draw a lot of amperage if you jump it to 12V+. So, is the picture labeled wrong or do I have something wacky going on?

View attachment 14836

 

[Ark :D]

Ross, thanks for all the info. Now I just find myself wondering WTF is going on with my starter. Regardless, it's too late to look at it now .... yeah, it's too late. Stay out of the garage. STAY OUT OF THE GARAGE, no more 2AM and still wrenching nights for me.

*edit*

...... I did not stay out of the garage. It was a quick test I was already wired for, so I tested. I am NOT seeing 12v on that pin when the ignition is in crank position. I will test to see if my ECM is getting power tomorrow.

 

[Ross]

I think your starter is wired correctly. You were not testing it correctly.

My dash was acting badly this weekend, sometimes preventing me from starting my car. I ran a wire from the solenoid + into the cab, where I can connect it to power, and bypass the key. It is annoying to have to steal my own car, but it works... hopefully I can fix the dash issue soon. I think it is the green wire with the low speed data that is causing me issues, loosing signal to the dash gauges, and stopping the solenoid on the starter motor from getting power.

 

[Karter2026]

Great idea, I knew the locktite would melt with heat but all I could think of was my blue wrench, which probably would melt a lot more than just the locktite. I will give that a shot.

I have an ELM327 OBDII module that I've used for clearing/monitoring codes on my Fords, forever. It's been with me through five Mustangs, my wife's Focus, and now with our Explorer and C-Max. Works great, always has. But now, I can't get it to connect to the ECM on the Goblin. The continuity of the data wires is there, making me think maybe the ECM is not getting power or is possibly even bad? Of course, it could also be the OBDII app I am using on my phone; I had to download a new one because my "main" one is for Ford only. Is there a pin I can test for 12v in the ECM harness, to make sure it's getting power?

The torque app is what I use on my tablet and phone Google play I have the Pro app since I wanted different PID's for monitoring trans temp in my suburban. There is a lite version also

 

[Zoom Zoom]

Here is the gasket just type part number into google and they are on Amazon and rock auto and etc.
126098878 you will need 2 one for both ends

 

[Ark :D]

I think your starter is wired correctly. You were not testing it correctly.

I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. If the solenoid gets 12v when you turn the key, that pin should show 12v when I turn the key with a voltmeter, as long as the second probe is grounded.

The torque app is what I use on my tablet and phone Google play I have the Pro app since I wanted different PID's for monitoring trans temp in my suburban. There is a lite version also

I will check that one out, thanks.

Here is the gasket just type part number into google and they are on Amazon and rock auto and etc.
126098878 you will need 2 one for both ends

Got one coming, as I only need one. Thanks.

 

[Briann1177]

If your fuel pump isn't priming and your throttle body isn't moving, then I think you have other issues. The starter not working is probably another symptom of whatever is going on.

 

[Ross]

You need the meter set to measure voltage, not continuity.
Yes, There should be 12v at the solenoid when the key it turned to the start position.

I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. If the solenoid gets 12v when you turn the key, that pin should show 12v when I turn the key with a voltmeter, as long as the second probe is grounded.

"I ran a long wire between that single-pin connector to where the key is so I could test ... I put one probe from my tester against the wire, and the other probe against known-good ground. I should have gotten a continuity tone upon turning the key, right? "

 

[Ark :D]

If your fuel pump isn't priming and your throttle body isn't moving, then I think you have other issues. The starter not working is probably another symptom of whatever is going on.

Agree 100% ... just not sure what to do.

You need the meter set to measure voltage, not continuity.
Yes, There should be 12v at the solenoid when the key it turned to the start position.


"I ran a long wire between that single-pin connector to where the key is so I could test ... I put one probe from my tester against the wire, and the other probe against known-good ground. I should have gotten a continuity tone upon turning the key, right? "

That was my first test. My second one, upon learning that the pin should carry 12v with a key turn, was with the meter in voltage measurement mode, and it showed 0.

 

[Ross]

Do you have access to a 2008 Cobalt TC electrical diagrams?
I would start there. It does sound like a data issue. Not sure if it is on the low speed GM LAN or the high speed one. Your car has CAN BUS instead of the GM high speed LAN?

 

[Ark :D]

I subscribed to Alldatadiy today. So I guess I have access to electrical diagrams for my car, but electrical diagrams and reading them is not a strong point for me.

My car has the GM high speed LAN, ie, the twisted pair that runs from OBDII to ECM.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

I can confirm the 08 SS/TC uses the high speed lan twisted pairs (tan wires).

 

[Lonny]

I think you should take every connector loose and check for bent pins and when you reinstall them make sure they are seating properly.
Also with each connector you remove see if it has any ground wires. If it does check for continuity back to your frame.
Check all of your fuses, some fuses will say they are for one thing but they will have other circuits piggy backed with it.
Make sure the fifty amp fuse up front near the battery is supplying power to the red plug at the BCM.
With having multiple symptoms you are likely to find that it is a bad ground or something not plugged in completely.
We have one base middle here that will not run unless you push in on the ECM connector really hard while installing it. We found the problem by accidentally leaning on the connector.

 

[Ark :D]

I think you should take every connector loose and check for bent pins and when you reinstall them make sure they are seating properly.
Also with each connector you remove see if it has any ground wires. If it does check for continuity back to your frame.
Check all of your fuses, some fuses will say they are for one thing but they will have other circuits piggy backed with it.
Make sure the fifty amp fuse up front near the battery is supplying power to the red plug at the BCM.
With having multiple symptoms you are likely to find that it is a bad ground or something not plugged in completely.
We have one base middle here that will not run unless you push in on the ECM connector really hard while installing it. We found the problem by accidentally leaning on the connector.

I really appreciate the support. I will get all of this done tonight/tomorrow and will report back.

 

[Briann1177]

So in other words, I am running the original ignition and key, but a different theft module. I have not changed the BCM or ECM out.

I think this is your problem. For anybody who has the '09 service manual, on page 6-9 under "Programming and Setup" there is a section for initializing the theft deterrent module. That part I'm not sure of is it just the Tech-II version of the key learn process or is there more to it than that. It looks like there is more to it than just doing the 30 minute key learn.

 

[Ark :D]

I think this is your problem. For anybody who has the '09 service manual, on page 6-9 under "Programming and Setup" there is a section for initializing the theft deterrent module. That part I'm not sure of is it just the Tech-II version of the key learn process or is there more to it than that. It looks like there is more to it than just doing the 30 minute key learn.

I don't doubt that a bit, to be honest. I will see if I can find more information on the topic.

I think you should take every connector loose and check for bent pins and when you reinstall them make sure they are seating properly.
Also with each connector you remove see if it has any ground wires. If it does check for continuity back to your frame.
Check all of your fuses, some fuses will say they are for one thing but they will have other circuits piggy backed with it.
Make sure the fifty amp fuse up front near the battery is supplying power to the red plug at the BCM.
With having multiple symptoms you are likely to find that it is a bad ground or something not plugged in completely.
We have one base middle here that will not run unless you push in on the ECM connector really hard while installing it. We found the problem by accidentally leaning on the connector.

Tonight I disconnected every connector in the front half of the car to check for bent pins. I found none. On connectors that have grounds, I tested continuity to both the frame and the negative post on the battery. I then reseated each one as vigorously as can be expected.

I checked all the fuses in both the engine fuse block and the BCM. One was blown, but it was only the horn. I swapped in a spare 10A fuse. I noticed a fuse labeled "AIR SOL" on the fuse block lid was missing, but when I went to put a fuse in that spot, the pins are not there for it to plug into. So, I'm not too worried about it.

I did not remember to check power to the BCM but it has to be there I would think, since the mileage pops up on the gauge cluster when I turn the key.

I did find one thing that disturbs me a little bit. I checked continuity (again) on the low speed data wires. I kept one probe from my tester on the green wire's pin on OBDII, then check the other four in sequence: TDM, tested good. TPMS/door lock receiver, tested good. Gauge cluster, tested good. But then I got to the BCM plug ... J1, C15 according to BAR-AIR's notes I believe? My continuity tester, rather than just making a steady tone, made an alarm-like noise I never heard it make before. I have no idea what that means.

 

[Desert Sasqwatch]

Don't worry, the Men In Black will be along shortly to confiscate your tester, car, tools and everything else associated with the discovery of element 115 outside of a laboratory. Make sure your life insurance is paid up.