V1 Jason in Texas - ext. track - 09 SS/TC

[JBINTX]

So I think Reese (iatmapotcmst) introduced himself to the forum a few days ago. He is the guy here in Houston who buys, repairs, and flips Cobalts. He also drives one sweet one and hangs with the group of Cobalt owners. He bought most of my good / valuable Cobalt parts and has inquired about other's parts here in the forum.

Well, he dropped by tonight and brought an ECU with just a slight ZZP tune - 20 psi boost instead of the stock 15 psi, and no boost ramp limits. Just on loan. To try out. Like who wouldn't like a little more HP..... I installed it and went through the thirty minute three key turn on's to relearn it to the rest of the car. Then, I took it out on my nightly black ops undercover lap around the neighborhood. Oh My!!!!! Just that little tune increase was bottom of the seat noticeable! Enough that I was paranoid about pointing the Goblin in the right direction before getting on it - because it got there quickly. Horsepower is like crack for the right foot.......... So, I guess the only right thing to do would be to kindly return the ECU to Reese (thank him for helping hook me even more on horsepower) - and IMMEDIATELY call ZZP tomorrow to get the 25 psi version and some upgraded MAP sensors. Who wouldn't?????

So, for all you guys still building. Keep it up! Because then the fun - the pleasure of driving in something you assembled - the seat of your pants little kid will come out screaming with glee! And that doesn't even include the goos, gaaa, the looks, the cool factor that comes with it.

Wahooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ross]

So, I guess the only right thing to do would be to kindly return the ECU to Reese (thank him for helping hook me even more on horsepower) - and IMMEDIATELY call ZZP tomorrow to get the 25 psi version and some upgraded MAP sensors. Who wouldn't?????

Um, I wouldn't.

I love the higher HP, but paying someone $200 every time I want a new performance part, seems like a short term investment.
Think long term HP gains.... there are at least 4 of us here who tune engines, and you can too.
But only if you plan on doing more performance. If you are a one-and-done guy, then go to ZZP and spend a few hundred, If you want to do more, then spend $400ish, and get HP Tuners. Either way, spend $200ish on a wideband O2 sensor, with an AFR gauge, and be able to verify that you engine is running correctly at all times.

So far, my engine is stock, but HP Tuners has already allowed me to turn off dash lights, fix things I didn't even know were wrong with the sensors, and tune the engine for the short DF intake and exhaust. My car is about 1.5 seconds faster 0-60 now.

There are a bunch of videos at www.tuning101.com that explain tuning.

 

[iatmapotcmst]

Um, I wouldn't.

I love the higher HP, but paying someone $200 every time I want a new performance part, seems like a short term investment.
Think long term HP gains.... there are at least 4 of us here who tune engines, and you can too.
But only if you plan on doing more performance. If you are a one-and-done guy, then go to ZZP and spend a few hundred, If you want to do more, then spend $400ish, and get HP Tuners. Either way, spend $200ish on a wideband O2 sensor, with an AFR gauge, and be able to verify that you engine is running correctly at all times.

So far, my engine is stock, but HP Tuners has already allowed me to turn off dash lights, fix things I didn't even know were wrong with the sensors, and tune the engine for the short DF intake and exhaust. My car is about 1.5 seconds faster 0-60 now.

There are a bunch of videos at www.tuning101.com that explain tuning.

I would agree with the “one and done” sentiment to a point. Jason could still modify and the ZZP tune he gets will still work as is or they offer a DEEP discount for tune changes (injector changes or switching to e85). He could even run a zfr6758 without any retune at all (whether he’s on stock tune or zzp tune). You don’t need to get a wideband O2 sensor, the factory turbo Cobalt upper (closed loop) O2 sensor is already a wideband sensor. An AFR gauge might be nice, but I wouldn’t say it is necessary unless he plans on tuning his own car. Also a ZZP 93 tune is only $149 + $7 shipping if you send in your core ecu, so he would get a zzp tune and 4 or 5 retunes from zzp before a $400 investment into HPtuners becomes a net gain. I don’t work for them and I’m not trying to say they are the only option, just that they are proven and effective with minimal work. Jason also strikes me as the type of guy who might enjoy learning how to tune so he may choose to self tune anyway.

 

[JBINTX]

Um, I wouldn't.

I love the higher HP, but paying someone $200 every time I want a new performance part, seems like a short term investment.
Think long term HP gains.... there are at least 4 of us here who tune engines, and you can too.
But only if you plan on doing more performance. If you are a one-and-done guy, then go to ZZP and spend a few hundred, If you want to do more, then spend $400ish, and get HP Tuners. Either way, spend $200ish on a wideband O2 sensor, with an AFR gauge, and be able to verify that you engine is running correctly at all times.

So far, my engine is stock, but HP Tuners has already allowed me to turn off dash lights, fix things I didn't even know were wrong with the sensors, and tune the engine for the short DF intake and exhaust. My car is about 1.5 seconds faster 0-60 now.

There are a bunch of videos at www.tuning101.com that explain tuning.

Ross: Valid point. Although I have no plans presently to go more than what a ZZP tune would add, the HP tuners software does offer other diagnostic / adjustment capabilities for the initial dollars spent. I will consider. I do value Reese's input as well. He has been around Cobalts for many years and has seen a lot of good and bad out in the real world.

Thanks guys for all the input and perspective!

 

[Indy Lonnie]

I had the ZZperformance dyno tune. If your 1 and done, best $ you can spend. I would rely on a professional tuner to do the programming. The learning curve on tuning it yourself can get expensive, especially on a turbo car. I am thing about getting HP tuners only to switch from 93 octane to E45 and E85. I am still planning on having ZZPerformance to the tunes for those, and loading according to what fuel I have. My drivability is now better than what the Cobalt was before disassembly.

 

[Ross]

I had the ZZperformance dyno tune. If your 1 and done, best $ you can spend. I would rely on a professional tuner to do the programming. The learning curve on tuning it yourself can get expensive, ...

Don't be intimidated by tuning. You can do it. The expensive part is $400 for HP Tuners... and all the performance parts you buy.
I found one guy giving free education on tuning... Kyle, at www.tuning101.com
He has a bunch of tuning videos. Start at his Tuning101 playlist, and see if it something you want to learn.
A dyno tune is expensive per hour, and often focuses on wide open throttle.
Tuning your own engine on the road is much cheaper, so you can take your time, and tune all the RPM/load ranges that engine uses.
You also can retune anytime you get a new performance part, change what temperature your radiator fan turns on at, remove some red lights from the dash by removing specific Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's), etc.

 

[JBINTX]

Don't be intimidated by tuning. You can do it. The expensive part is $400 for HP Tuners... and all the performance parts you buy.
I found one guy giving free education on tuning... Kyle, at www.tuning101.com
He has a bunch of tuning videos. Start at his Tuning101 playlist, and see if it something you want to learn.
A dyno tune is expensive per hour, and often focuses on wide open throttle.
Tuning your own engine on the road is much cheaper, so you can take your time, and tune all the RPM/load ranges that engine uses.
You also can retune anytime you get a new performance part, change what temperature your radiator fan turns on at, remove some red lights from the dash by removing specific Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's), etc.

Ross: Thanks! The learning curve was one reason I was going to avoid doing it myself. You make some good points for spending the money on HP Tuners.
I assume it is software that you buy once and own?
Are there updates that will cost more $$?

 

[JBINTX]

I had the ZZperformance dyno tune. If your 1 and done, best $ you can spend. I would rely on a professional tuner to do the programming. The learning curve on tuning it yourself can get expensive, especially on a turbo car. I am thing about getting HP tuners only to switch from 93 octane to E45 and E85. I am still planning on having ZZPerformance to the tunes for those, and loading according to what fuel I have. My drivability is now better than what the Cobalt was before disassembly.

The crowd that goes with ZZP does seem very satisfied. Their initial "canned" tune is pretty cheap for the horsepower gain.
I guess I have more to think about than I thought.
Too bad an HP tuner owner does not live next door to me.............

 

[Indy Lonnie]

The crowd that goes with ZZP does seem very satisfied. Their initial "canned" tune is pretty cheap for the horsepower gain.
I guess I have more to think about than I thought.
Too bad an HP tuner owner does not live next door to me.............

My experience with ZZPerformance was great. They spent over 2 hrs with my car on the dyno. They helped me get it off the trailer and load it back on... They did about 10-12 runs full throttle for max power and then another 15 minutes or so drivability with different loads. My car would not even start with their canned tune. He had to manipulate the tune before he cold drive it across the street to the dyno. Al did my tune. He is their LNF guy. I was happy to have their best tuner do my tune. Honestly, the car is quieter and easier to drive now than the donor car. When I used to start it cold, it would high idle and go through about 3 stages of idle and clicking noises before it would settle down. Now it just starts and drives - quietly. The jerking is also gone in low gears. The only thing I have to remember is to let is warm up over 180 degrees (when the fan comes on) before I get into boost, otherwise it will lay down and throw a fit. After warm-up 25 lbs of boost, 291 wheel hp and 362 ft lbs torque is awesome.

 

[JBINTX]

My experience with ZZPerformance was great. They spent over 2 hrs with my car on the dyno. They helped me get it off the trailer and load it back on... They did about 10-12 runs full throttle for max power and then another 15 minutes or so drivability with different loads. My car would not even start with their canned tune. He had to manipulate the tune before he cold drive it across the street to the dyno. Al did my tune. He is their LNF guy. I was happy to have their best tuner do my tune. Honestly, the car is quieter and easier to drive now than the donor car. When I used to start it cold, it would high idle and go through about 3 stages of idle and clicking noises before it would settle down. Now it just starts and drives - quietly. The jerking is also gone in low gears. The only thing I have to remember is to let is warm up over 180 degrees (when the fan comes on) before I get into boost, otherwise it will lay down and throw a fit. After warm-up 25 lbs of boost, 291 wheel hp and 362 ft lbs torque is awesome.

So with HP Tuners, you could send me your file and I could load it to my ECU?
Or, I could use any file available that is appropriate?
Are there restrictions to sharing files?
Are there other issues with loading a borrowed file?
Is there a limit on how many files or times you load one?

Fill me in here on some of these and other issues, please!

 

[Ross]

Ross: Thanks! The learning curve was one reason I was going to avoid doing it myself. You make some good points for spending the money on HP Tuners.
I assume it is software that you buy once and own?
Are there updates that will cost more $$?

No additional costs that I am aware of.
You get the hardware piece (~$400ish with 2 credits) that plugs into the OBDII port, and has a USB cord for your laptop computer. Software is free to download for anyone, VCM Scanner and VCM Editor. You can download your tunes, record data while driving, with your purchase. To upload a tune to your car, you need to spend the 2 credits, which are $50 each.... well, if you didn't already buy them with the initial purchase. Once your credits are applied to your PCM, you have lifetime updates to that one PCM. Additional PCMs will cost more credits.

My experience with ZZPerformance was great... , 291 wheel hp and 362 ft lbs torque is awesome.

Indy, using ZZP is certainly easier, and makes sense for most people. Those of us who want to learn, and keep modify the tunes, are better suited to HP Tuners or even a higher level of performance, may opt for aftermarket ECUs. Glad ZZP took care of your car, your engine's numbers are impressive.

 

[Ross]

So with HP Tuners, you could send me your file and I could load it to my ECU? Well you could, but you should not do that.
Or, I could use any file available that is appropriate? You have VIN numbers in your ECU that you want to keep... If you want somebody's tune in your car, then copy the data from specific tables over to your car's tune. Much safer.
Are there restrictions to sharing files? No. HP Tuners has a public repository. Kyle has one too. We can even copy tunes to this forum. Thanks Adam!
Are there other issues with loading a borrowed file? Yes. Don't do it. But feel free to borrow data from other people's tunes.
Is there a limit on how many files or times you load one? Only limit is your HDD space. Load files up and down as much as you want.

Fill me in here on some of these and other issues, please! https://www.hptuners.com/my-account/tunerepository/

 

[Indy Lonnie]

So with HP Tuners, you could send me your file and I could load it to my ECU?
Or, I could use any file available that is appropriate?
Are there restrictions to sharing files?
Are there other issues with loading a borrowed file?
Is there a limit on how many files or times you load one?

Fill me in here on some of these and other issues, please!

I don't have the tune and I don't have HP Tuners. ZZPerformance asked if I wanted the tune, they said they would keep it on file if I ever wanted it. I can shoot them an email if you would like. Every car will be different. Mine has 128,000 miles
Al really had to dial mine back from what he was expecting. The first run was over 400 ft lbs torque @ 3000 rpm. I about crapped myself when I looked at the screen.

 

[JBINTX]

I don't have the tune and I don't have HP Tuners. ZZPerformance asked if I wanted the tune, they said they would keep it on file if I ever wanted it. I can shoot them an email if you would like. Every car will be different. Mine has 128,000 miles
Al really had to dial mine back from what he was expecting. The first run was over 400 ft lbs torque @ 3000 rpm. I about crapped myself when I looked at the screen.

My donor was 2009 SS/tc like yours. I would be pumped to get to the numbers you have!

I bet it was a cool day going to ZZP. Unfortunately the trip fro Texas is a bit far for me.....

Hold up on emailing them until I decide which way I am going to go. I am sure they would share the file with you, but probably for some $$$.

 

[Ross]

I don't have the tune and I don't have HP Tuners. ZZPerformance asked if I wanted the tune, they said they would keep it on file if I ever wanted it. I can shoot them an email if you would like. Every car will be different. Mine has 128,000 miles
Al really had to dial mine back from what he was expecting. The first run was over 400 ft lbs torque @ 3000 rpm. I about crapped myself when I looked at the screen.

If you bring your car to the Midwest 2020 meetup, I could download your tune from the PCM, and give it to you for free.

 

[Indy Lonnie]

If you bring your car to the Midwest 2020 meetup, I could download your tune from the PCM, and give it to you for free.

Has the date and place been decided yet? I see the last post about it deals with COVID.
The COVID issue is something we are going to have to live with. I work in healthcare, lab specifically. The main reason for the lockdown is so we would not over-run the hospital capacity. The hospital #'s are going down now. The death rates are lower than expected. We will see a spike or two before this is over. Truth is, we are all going to have to get it or wait 18 months for a vaccine. It really doesn't scare me as much as it should. I deal with contagious disease every day. Sorry for the rant...
I would love to go to the meetup, but the term Midwest to me is a joke. I live in the so-called Midwest in Indiana, but would not like a 12 hour drive to get FAR Midwest... BUT, I might just to have the tune downloaded.

 

[Ross]

Has the date and place been decided yet? ...

Midwest Spring meet 2020 has been delayed until the last weekend in spring, so JUNE 13th & 14th, driving roads near Branson, Missouri.

 

[ToxicBill]

Once I get some run time in the Goblin, I may dive into some tuning . . . Would be interesting to learn.

 

[WYGoblin]

If you ever get your tune pulled Lonnie it would be interesting to see it and compare to what I have after tuning.

 

[JBINTX]

So with all the time at home these days, my wife was digging through the old photos to organize them. She came across some lost incriminating evidence. It seems about ten years ago, I started a trend by buying a little dune buggy for the kids. Fast forward to today and the Goblin. All my fault - it was a proven fact...........

My response? "Honey, the boys grew up, so the toys had to grow up".................